Episode: Gene Sigalov TAB 1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22

Contractor on Upwork.
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Sorry, I forgot to do that.
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Yeah, it's okay.
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So I found a contractor on Upwork who appeared to be a very savvy guy.
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He's like a Northern European guy, pretty expensive.
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Like his Upwork rate is like 150 bucks an hour or something like this.
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And I had talked to him and he had implemented a lot of voice AI agents and he specifically warned me against considering VAPI.
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And he was believable, right?
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The bona fides were there.
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And I can introduce you to him.
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And the only reason that I invoke him and that I suggest that maybe an introduction may be useful is because he's a guy who implements these technologies in the wild for many smaller clients or maybe not even so small, right?
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But he kind of specializes in this focus area.
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So it might be a worthwhile introduction for you.
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100%.
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Yeah, we'd really appreciate that because, yeah, I think we're just trying to laser in on what technical problems can we and do we want to solve with our platform?
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Because I think Broadly, I'd say every vertical we're talking to is using voice for something.
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The further they get into production, the more specific and nuanced the problems get, and some of them are shared across what people are doing, but some of them aren't at all.
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That was one of the reasons for
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inviting you to join the technical advisory board that we're running.
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I think I explained in the email, but basically we're trying to have regular, pretty focused chats with folks across voice and basically share back, learn from about what the headaches are, but also share back with them, hey, we talked to someone else who's struggling with the same thing you were, would you like an intro or here's something they shared to solve that?
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So the goal is that it's a reasonable hook, right?
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And the reason that I'm sharing my time here today, right, I could be working on something that's going to bring value to my users instead of speaking with you.
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Absolutely.
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I have, you know, maybe a Slack or Discord.
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If it's, you know, would probably help you get more folks on board, right?
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If there's an opportunity to meet other people, other people building in the space, kind of like a little voice AI community thing.
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I'm actually part of some WhatsApp groups that are focused on
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AI, not WhatsApp, but they're WhatsApp groups that are focused on AI-based telephony and voice AI applications.
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Terrific.
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Yeah, no, I think, you know, we're interested in being anyone who's smart and trying to solve these problems, and I think, Yeah, your time's appreciated and anyone you feel that could be a good connection, we'd love to chat with.
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But yeah, I think with that kind of founding context on this, I think there's typically a few specific questions we like to kind of use as a springboard.
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Jack, do you want to take over and kind of run through a few of those?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And by the way, we should say just upfront, we're not trying to sell here.
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We're just trying to discover interesting things and things that we should be building.
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I understand.
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I get it.
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You're builders.
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You're building a thing.
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You're trying to figure out what to build.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So with that, Gene, the first question that we really like to ask is
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in the voice AI world, if there's one thing that you could wave a magic wand at, and make it better or fix it or change it.
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What would you wave a magic wand at?
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I mean, realism.
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And, and that's a catch-all phrase for latency, right?
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And also verbal tics, but elegant verbal tics where it's not the same verbal tick being played again and again.
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I'm sure you've heard some agents where they try to do a verbal tick just to make it seem real.
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But then after, like, a four minute conversation, you feel like it's just the same verbal tick on like it's a stuck record, right?
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Kind of like laugh lines in Seinfeld, it's always the same laugh lines.
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Only it's much more grading.
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So, yeah.
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Okay.
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But the broad umbrella is realism, right?
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And realism has a lot of facets, right?
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Latency, cadence, tenor of the voice, right?
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All the things.
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Is there anything within realism that you would wave it at specifically?
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Latency, I think the thing that you have control over latency.
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So
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are you specifically focused on telephony or, well, you're probably not specifically focused on telephony, but telephony probably comes across a lot and you don't really have a tremendous amount of impact unless you partner with a telephony provider, like a Telnyx, for example, like a CPaaS.
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And Telnyx in particular, they're trying to co-locate some of the AI stack, as close to them as possible.
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I don't know if you've ever talked to them, but that's a thing they're doing.
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Yeah.
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And that's quite appealing to you.
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I mean, yeah, it's so, I mean, we have customers, right?
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They are low end customers, right?
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Meaning like they're small businesses, which is our focus area, but that's what they complain about.
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They're like, there's a delay, right?
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And yes, there is.
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And then we say, just stick around.
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It's going to get better, right?
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There's a lot of people, everyone across the stack is working to remedy this problem.
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And I don't have good tooling, so I have to, so how I figure out the latency, I get the WAV file, and then I use a software on my Mac, which does transcripts.
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It uses an open whisper model, but it diatizes, what is it called?
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Diarizes.
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Diarizes.
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Yeah, it diarizes down to the millisecond.
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And then I just paste the transcript into the ChatGPT and I ask it to use a diaried transcript to give me the median to respond time, the average to respond time, the longest to respond time.
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So I've had to hack it.
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That's cool.
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Yeah.
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And yeah, but response times, that's important.
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Yeah.
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I think that's the number one complaint within realism, but there are other aspects to realism, which makes it feel better.
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So some people add kind of like a busy workplace noise in the background.
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That seems to be a popular one.
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So it sounds like a Philippine BPO office or like Indian BPO office.
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Do you know what I'm talking about?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, exactly.
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But also it's like the same thing.
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It's like the laugh track over and over again.
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File.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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We've had some funny ones where people have used it for, like, life coaching and, like, personal trainers, but it sounds like a call center and stuff.
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That's Vibes and stuff, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's super cool.
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If you had better realism, see if you had significantly better realism, how would it change your life?
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I mean.
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I don't know.
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I presume that some amount of users.
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And this is a presumption because it's difficult to get people on the phone who decline to use your service.
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They just go away and never come back.
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But from people who stuck it out, we do hear this regularly.
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So I have to infer that some amount of people don't convert to being paid users because the latency is too much for them or the realism is just not there.
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But it's a pretty good inference.
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It's pretty reasonable because we have live users who do stick around with us and they're complaining.
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That's super interesting.
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Is there anything
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that's changed recently that makes realism even more valuable now than it was
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a while ago, some unknown amount of time?
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Year ago or like two years ago?
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I can't think of a thing.
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I thought that we'd have kind of like,
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not to answer your question, but a thought just occurred to me.
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I thought that with AI, there'd be kind of like an uncanny valley just like with robots, that in fact, people would maybe be upset if it sounds too real, meaning they don't want their AI sounding as good as a loved one, right?
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To kind of keep the machines at a distance.
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But no such compunctions.
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They actually just wanted to sound as human as possible.
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Yeah.
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So better is better, basically.
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Better is better.
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Yeah.
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That's essentially it.
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Some of the things that we tell people to do, like their agents, these are small businesses, is to front load the expectations.
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Like, hello, I am an AI receptionist.
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I can handle these four things.
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I can do scheduling.
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I can answer scheduling questions, or you can leave a message.
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So they know what they're going to get.
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They're not like-- because I think there's a little bit of a hangover left from the prevalent and widespread use of natural language platforms, which kind of identify the intent and then send you down the right tree.
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And those platforms platforms on average suck.
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Right.
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And people still use them.
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Right.
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Like Apple uses them.
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So there's kind of a hangover effect where people don't realize this new generation of technology is really quite different and quite good.
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And so I think it's just going to take a little bit, but we'll get there, obviously.
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I don't know if you've seen that as well.
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Totally.
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Yeah.
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I think the human expectations of what voice can do is one of the most interesting parts of this.
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Because it's slowly changing as this technology rolls out.
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Right.
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And I think I think it's super interesting to me.
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Yeah.
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Do you have any stats on adoption?
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I know it's sub 1% for kind of businesses in telephony.
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I'm specifically interested in telephony.
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But do you have any data to share?
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On voice AI generally across industries.
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Voice AI across industries.
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And so I'm not sure how you categorize voice AI because my mental model is telephony.
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You're probably married to a broader concept, which is in-app.
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And so I'm broadly interested in telephony adoption, but any data you have is good to have.
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No hard numbers, but I think from having spoken with quite a lot of people doing telephony-based voice agents, I would say it's extraordinarily early.
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Still.
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But I have been quite, I mean, surprised and not surprised by some like this.
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There's a couple of businesses kind of doing what you guys are doing, but in BC, in Canada, like where we are, who we've got connected with.
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And I've been quite surprised at, I was initially quite surprised, I should say, at how easy they were finding it to get customers on board to try the product.
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But obviously for people who It's a very clear pitch for someone who's currently not answering the phones for 12 hours of the day.
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It's easy to try it.
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And I think broadly what you just described around, lots of people find an issue with the latency, but some people still are trying it.
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That maps with what I've heard locally as well.
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We're in a very small town in Victoria, but we have someone in our network who's kind of just selling a solution locally.
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And he managed to get, I think, like
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four hotels in this town to try it.
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And there's not that many hotels in this town.
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So like, you know, it's a poor hotel town.
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There's probably less than 10 that reasonably he would be hitting up with like a cold approach there.
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And that number like stood out to me because it's like this is very early technology.
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You know, it's they're not necessarily tech-enabled business.
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They're not early adopter businesses.
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And yet they're willing to adopt because you're solving a very valuable problem.
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And so I think broadly, my impression is still very early in society, but it is really interesting how quickly people are willing to try something that does actually solve a real problem.
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But that's not that surprising if you zoom out from it.
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But in the context of what people are willing to put up with to try and solve the problem, it's
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definitely possible, as you know, and I think you guys have done like the best job with this scene of like to create a really responsive agent on the phone.
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But the stack is still like the industry is in beta.
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The tooling is still being figured out.
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Like, yeah,
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it's a good fishing hole.
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Yeah, this is a fishing hole which will have the salmon come through.
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So sorry to use the analogy.
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It's good.
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I think, yeah, it's like the stack is evolving quickly.
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Right.
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And so, I think, yeah, that's my overall impression.
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Sorry, we don't have any biggest stats on it.
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Yeah.
13:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2156
Jack, do you have any other questions?
13:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2157
I don't want to cut you short.
13:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2164
I know you're going through a script.
13:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2171
I want to make sure I've answered everything for you.
13:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2178
No, yeah, I think that was my script.
13:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2188
I tend to be those of the free big questions.
13:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2196
And then the other question is always just like if there's anything else that's like very the same question again.
13:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2206
But I think the only other thing that I could add is that if you add a lot of
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2226
verbal ticks to the conversation and you make them elegant.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2245
My subjective feeling that even two seconds on average or median, let's say, response time is quite good.
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2255
And I know that a lot of the providers advertise something like 500 milliseconds.
14:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2273
I don't think that's realistic.
14:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2287
I don't really see that in the wild very much.
14:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2292
Yeah, I think two seconds is actually quite a decent experience.
14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2302
If you could get it down probably to like a second and a half, no one would complain is the truth, right?
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2313
I think that that's kind of like my base case.
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2335
Tell me if I'm wrong if my-.
14:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2345
That tracks with what I would say was like my impression for sure.
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2352
I haven't seen any that resemble 500 milliseconds really.
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2365
It's but a dream, but it's nice marketing material as well.
14:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2374
It exists on a few demos, but
14:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2385
I think something that's interesting that we found, and this is less relevant for telephony, but
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2392
when you have a visual UI as well,
15:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2408
well, actually, it just doesn't work so much on a A phone conversation is mimicking speaking to a human, right?
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2416
So you're kind of stuck in that metaphor.
15:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2436
Whereas I think we found in some places, if you add a receiving sound or something as like a visual, sorry, an audible UI,
15:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2444
it actually feels to the user like the same amount of latency feels faster and gives a sense of like, oh, they heard me, right?
15:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2468
I'll shut up now.
15:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2493
And then you can kind of do turn taking because I think turn taking is obviously another big one, but that's something we noticed from our own experimentation and we've seen a few other places.
15:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2497
But it's obviously with telepathy, that doesn't really work because you're.
15:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2532
Yeah.
15:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2543
So I'm gonna add one more thing that may be useful.
15:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2544
Maybe you already know this.
16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2555
And I also would like some feedback.
16:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2560
So when we launched with the GPT real time, didn't have semantic turn detection.
16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2567
They had server turn detection and it sucked.
16:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2581
And we were just waiting for them to make it better.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2589
And then they released semantic turn detection and we flipped that on and it was quite good.
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2600
And then we recently tested their server turn detection and it seemed to be just as good as the semantic turn detection and a hair faster, my subjective experience.
16:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2617
So we've turned off using semantic turn detection.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2646
We're back to server turn detection.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2654
And it just works.
16:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2660
I don't even know what their server turn detection does.
16:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2664
I don't know how it works.
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2674
I presume it just waits for silence, but that's too simple.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2680
It must be doing something else as well.
16:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2691
I don't know how familiar you are with the real time product.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2699
I imagine very familiar, right?
16:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2711
You have to really distinguish your product against their product.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2716
Yeah.
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2726
Actually, we have been more focusing on the speech to text, text to speech at the moment, and we have not been focusing on real time, but it's like, yeah, we're getting it.
17:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2727
Phil, I think there's this feeling internally that it is just so good and it feels like
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2760
things are going, like, that way.
17:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2777
And even if not everyone's using it, it's gonna become.
17:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2783
I don't know.
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2793
It just feels so much more natural.
17:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2796
I don't know.
17:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2803
Yeah.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2806
So do you mean.
17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2807
You mean streaming versus just, like, yeah.
17:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2811
So.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2818
So we have not.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2819
So we've been kind of doing, like.
17:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2823
Creating the pipeline where it's like you get, we hook up with, like, text to speech, speech to text, and, like, you're in the middle and you handle the text and stuff rather than.
17:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2830
That's how we did it initially.
17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2864
Yeah.
17:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2870
Yeah.
17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2871
So.
17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2872
But it just is.
18:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2873
So, yeah, it's like when you play with it, it's just so, so good.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2877
And I think most of the people that we've spoken to have been doing it the kind of way that we've.
18:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2891
Been focused on, but I think more and more people are moving to it, sounds like what you did, because it's just getting better.
18:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2912
It's probably a little faster.
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2936
Yeah, it's gonna get better and better, right?
18:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2941
Yeah.
18:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2949
What else can I glean that's useful or I can share that's useful?
18:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2950
Yeah, one random tip we had the other day that was like, if you've got bad audio, it's like asking the user to speak up.
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2963
It's like very small thing, but like some one of our people we spoke to.
18:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-2988
That's a nice tip.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3003
Do you have a tip for feedback?
18:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3007
Once the feedback was so loud, the AI just ended up talking to itself.
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3014
It was just like- Really?
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3028
Oh no.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3033
I mean, I guess you could do the same thing, right?
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3035
If there's an echo or something or.
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3046
Like- yeah, but how do you detect an echo, right?
18:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3053
I guess you have to put it in the prompt, right?
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3063
If you think there might be an echo, if you find yourself saying the same thing to yourself, you're probably speaking to an echo.
19:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3074
Yeah,
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3098
I wonder if there's like a kind of more like classical model you could run on the audio that detects echoes or something.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3099
I don't know.
19:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3122
Yeah, but that was a really funny one.
19:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3125
It was just like a 30 second transcript of it itself.
19:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3133
And like the poor guy is like, yeah.
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3144
Oh my God.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3152
Sometimes it's hellish, isn't it?
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3155
Like I got it to accidentally read out some code and it was just like grating.
19:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3160
It feels like the sort of thing like all the spy agencies could use to torture people.
19:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3176
It's like make them listen to code being read out by an AI.
19:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3193
Yeah.
19:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3206
Are you guys doing the speech detects that?
19:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3207
So are you competing with Deepgram on that portion?
19:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3215
Right?
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3224
Are you doing this?
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3225
We're using Deepgram.
19:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3229
Yeah.
19:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3232
So we're kind of more like just stitching all together right now.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3233
But to be honest, we're trying to find the edge of the thing where we can really distinguish ourselves, which is why we're trying to do so much research and stuff and just figure out where the pain points that aren't being addressed are right now.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3245
So
20:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3291
that's why we're talking to you and stuff and like, you know, how.
20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3292
Many people on your team?
20:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3305
There's six of us.
20:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3310
How did you and Aiden get hooked up?
20:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3314
I mean, you're in the UK, he's in Canada.
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3322
How did that happen?
20:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3331
Yeah, I don't know if you can still hear Aiden's British accent behind the.
20:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3335
Oh,
20:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3349
I see.
20:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3350
I see.
20:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3352
What are you doing in Canada?
20:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3354
It's freezing.
20:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3360
It's even colder than.
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3362
Oh, yeah.
20:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3366
Thankfully, I'm in the most temperate bit.
20:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3368
So I did a previous company with our CEO who's based in the UK.
20:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3375
Our other co-founder is here in Victoria.
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3389
So we have a kind of odd dual geography thing going on.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3396
But we actually met Jack because
20:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3408
Jack is a podcaster.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3414
He does the best podcast on scaling DevTools.
21:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3418
It's called scaling DevTools.
21:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3426
It's great.
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3430
And so we were huge fans and we met him through that and somehow persuaded him to come join us on this journey.
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3432
So, yeah, cool.
21:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3455
Very nice.
21:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3458
If I could be of further help, I mean, let me know if there are other people who are similarly situated that you think would be useful for me to have a conversation with.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3460
That'd be cool.
21:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3494
What else?
21:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3497
You know, Felix's and my background, right?
21:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3499
We did a company called Simple Texting.
21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3506
We sold it.
21:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3513
We know a lot of people in kind of like the SMS telephony space.
21:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3516
Right.
21:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3530
We sold to cinch, which is like a twilio competitor, more Eurocentric, kind of roughly similarly sized.
21:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3531
Yeah.
21:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3548
So also, yeah, other, other people in kind of telephony space as well.
21:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3549
Like this.
21:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3562
This is the industry we've been in for quite a while.
21:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3564
So, yeah, I feel like you guys know your stuff.
21:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3575
I I think I actually.
22:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3585
I know we're at time.
22:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3590
I have one actual last question I really want to ask you, which is,
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3595
how are you guys thinking about the data capture piece?
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3609
Because that's actually something I thought Boardie does very well, is like take your name and text, take your details text, and then use the phone for like the voice for like a different part of data capture.
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3619
And I think that's something we're really interested in because that's coming up a lot with people like, you know, Names, personal information, transcriptions just kind of not as accurate as text.
22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3657
And so systems that use both like Baudy really sticks out to me, but I've seen a few others that use SMS for data capture.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3689
But I'm just wondering, you guys obviously thought about this from a lot of angles.
22:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3714
So be curious on your, if you have any thoughts.
22:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3729
Yeah.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3739
So, you know, I think that Deepgram, so, you know, we do a fast transcription with open, with Whisper, right?
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3740
Sucks, right?
22:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3760
It's terrible, but we do show that at first.
22:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3762
And then once we get the longer transcript from Deepgram, we replace the transcript.
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3771
Deepgram doesn't support as many languages as Whisper.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3785
Whisper supports like 98 or something.
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3793
Deepgram probably supports 30, 33, something like that.
23:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3799
And so Deepgram, I think, roughly 90% accuracy, roughly 90%, not 100%, but roughly 90.
23:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3807
And it's getting better.
23:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3822
Of what we're trying to do is we're moving, we're currently using Nexmo in our stack.
23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3826
I think fidelity has something to do with it, right?
23:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3842
Like voice fidelity, right?
23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3852
Depending on whether or not you're hopping like on a HD codec, right?
23:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3856
If you're getting HD voice, right, probably transcription is going to be better.
23:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3869
If you're getting like, you know, cruddy voice, like 8 PCM, 8
23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3882
kHz, and it's not so nice.
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3894
So we're trying to improve audio quality, which will hopefully include transcript quality, which will include data collection quality.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3900
But, you know, the real answer is that we're relying on people to check the transcript, to check the audio.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3919
If something doesn't, doesn't, doesn't smell right.
24:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3939
And that seems to be okay for the time being.
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3946
Like, no, we've not had any complaints that, like, hey, the data capture was bad.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3956
Just not a thing to be quite honest.
24:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3971
I I agree that data capture is important, probably even more so in kind of critical applications, maybe like medical scribe applications.
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-3979
Right.
24:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4001
Like, the wrong medication can kill someone.
24:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4002
Right.
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4009
So, like, if the doctor prescribed.
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4010
Something that sounded benign and then the guy's getting morphine, right?
24:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4016
That's a problem.
24:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4027
So I've not seen the mission critical stuff and no one is complaining is the short of it.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4030
And we're relying on people to just listen to the audio if it doesn't look like the right thing.
24:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4048
We do have a robust data collection feature.
24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4067
That's one of the things that people use a lot, right?
24:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4075
So if you remember our platform, there's the transcript and there's the summary above the transcript.
24:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4086
And then there's like the fields that you've wanted to suck out, like the specific, like, you know, the address, the first name, are your current client, how much money do you make a year, whatever it is, kind of like the lead qualification, if you will, the data collection portion.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4102
So we suck that out and we put it above the actual summary, right?
25:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4153
Like first name, last name, whatever it is, whatever data it is you're collecting.
25:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4167
And we just not, that's not a piece of feedback we've had.
25:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4181
Latency, we have people complain.
25:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4193
Everything comes back to latency.
25:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4198
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4203
Latency and really realism, right?
25:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4206
The reason I use realism is because yes, you can use some tricks, right?
25:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4211
That kind of like, you know, takes some of the edge off latency issues.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4225
Yeah, that's a really, really good data point.
25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4239
Thank you.
25:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4247
I think that's insightful.
25:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4249
Jack, did you have anything else before we wrap?
25:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4253
Sorry, I know we've gone slightly over time.
25:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4262
Gene, really appreciate it.
25:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4270
No, it's okay.
25:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4274
I'm enjoying chatting with you guys.
25:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4277
Yeah, yeah, no, I was just gonna say thank you, Gene.
25:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4283
It's
25:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4294
incredibly interesting and like, yeah, as Aiden said, you know, your stuff, like it's so cool.
26:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4295
Yeah, yeah, appreciate it.
26:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4311
Appreciate the call.
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4315
If you can think of anyone to introduce me to or if you're going to create like a little networking group, which will probably be useful for you because it's people who whose feedback you need, you know, please add me.
26:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4318
I'd be very appreciative.
26:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4359
If you're ever in Florida, ring me up.
26:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4363
Get a beer or something or some lunch.
26:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4371
It's also a nice place to go when it's cold in Canada.
26:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4379
I don't know what temporary area in Canada you're talking about because everything is going to freeze over pretty shortly.
26:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4391
Yeah, it's a lot warmer down where you are.
26:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4411
We might take you up on that.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4420
Jack, did we, should we send an email to book the next one of these?
26:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4427
Yeah, Jean, would it be okay to do, any follow-ups on this to ask you, you know?
26:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4442
Yeah, no problem.
26:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4459
Yeah.
26:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4462
Okay, awesome.
26:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4463
I'll send you an email about that, if that's okay.
26:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4465
Sure.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4475
I'll.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4476
I'll send you the transcript if my notion was.
26:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4477
Oh, yeah.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4486
That'll be amazing.
27:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4488
Thank you.
27:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4491
Thanks.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4493
All right, take care, guys.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4494
Bye.
27:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4499
Bye.
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4500
Bye.
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/22#word-4501

-----

Episode: Nathan Amin TAB 1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21

This sounds good.
6:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-0
Awesome.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3
Cool.
0:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-4
Yeah, we have a standard process for the tab just to try and get the same questions.
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-5
And then we're looking at everyone's answers to those questions and trying to pattern match.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-22
But yeah, we are now recording.
0:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-37
Yeah.
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-43
Okay, cool.
0:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-44
Yeah, so Nathan, and this is our favorite question.
0:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-46
We're building with voice AI and the stuff you've just described.
0:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-55
If there's anything that you could wave a magic wand at and make it better or make it less terrible or make it change anything, what would you wave the magic wand at?
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-66
Right now, because I'm in the phase of just having gone from zero to working product in the last week, Being
0:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-99
able to integrate with our system would have been fantastic.
0:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-120
I definitely think that with the tools that are out there now, it is 100% possible and would have been great if it was similar to Devin maybe in a way where you're able to kick off PRs because that's really the process now.
1:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-130
It's just code reviews.
1:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-174
If it can build out the reasoning for like, hey, this is what your system looks like, And this is how we can integrate with you.
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-178
This is a PR for how we've done that.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-204
Please review this.
1:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-213
That would be magical.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-216
That would allow us to just start working immediately.
1:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-220
Awesome.
1:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-229
And you kind of answered it, I guess, but how would that change your life if it existed?
1:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-230
I think, oh, how would it have changed last week?
1:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-248
I think I would have already been able to start focusing on metrics and decreasing delays, improving the audio quality, improving the script that we're going through.
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-258
So I'm doing that now or I'm doing that next.
2:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-285
I'm not even doing that now.
2:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-295
I'm doing that in a few days, but it has to be done by Friday.
2:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-301
So it would have been, it would have been great to have already kicked that off last week because a lot of that is very self-contained and It doesn't have to relate to integrating with our full system.
2:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-316
Is there anything different about the world now versus a year ago?
2:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-354
Yeah, sorry.
2:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-366
I was building in voice AI three years ago.
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-368
It was two years ago.
2:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-377
It was 2023.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-382
You have one of the last ones.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-385
It was summer of 2023.
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-392
Yeah, because
2:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-397
we went through YC, we were like one of the first voice AI companies that went through YC because OpenAI had just like just come out.
2:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-399
And.
2:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-425
It was crazy back then.
2:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-426
We were building Pipecat essentially on our own.
2:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-431
So
3:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-439
the fact that it just works is insane.
3:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-440
And I think tomorrow could be even better, especially with where we're seeing AI tools moving.
3:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-448
So
3:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-464
I would love for there to be a world where people can build out their own products and have solo founders.
3:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-465
I definitely think we're moving towards that, where anyone with an idea can build out a full system.
3:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-486
But anyone who is perhaps not a staff level software engineer, can also just build this out on a weekend.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-504
That would be ideal.
3:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-524
That would be incredible.
3:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-528
And also building out demos that way, you guys would be the go-to place for any startup that was building out a demo.
3:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-532
I've got friends that are building in EdTech voice AI, and they didn't even know what Pipecat was.
3:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-555
Which was, and I was like, what are you gonna, how did you build the system?
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-573
What did you do?
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-589
And like the other options are like,
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-593
you're using a system that doesn't have very good customization and you have very little control over how to scale or how to improve the system.
4:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-600
Or it kind of feels like you can't even get started.
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-626
Like PipeCAT, I think when you first look at it, can be a bit intimidating, even though the documentation is so beautiful.
4:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-637
But it doesn't give you that confidence that this will just start working immediately until you actually just start.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-659
You go through the five minute tutorial, then you're like, shit, okay, cool, this is working immediately.
4:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-678
Now, how do I integrate this into my system?
4:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-695
Yeah, yeah.
4:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-704
This is not on the standard sheet of questions, but I mean, it sounds like, piper cat have kind of like won your heart.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-706
It seems like they've done a good job there.
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-730
Is there anything that would
5:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-739
make you think, oh, let me look at something else?
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-744
Oh, totally.
5:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-754
I think it's definitely just being able to integrate with our system.
5:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-756
They just don't have that.
5:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-768
And that is far harder than creating a GitHub repo that just works.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-773
Interesting.
5:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-786
Like dig into the integrating with your system, because I feel like this is, I feel like the nuance is where the pain is, right?
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-787
Like, I don't know, like, what would you say is like within, within, okay, maybe I'll just ask this question.
5:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-812
So like within integrating with your system, If you could wave a wand at any part of it, there was particularly
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-832
a magic wand waved at it.
5:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-853
Let me take a look actually.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-859
Let's see.
5:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-865
I'm literally looking through the code right now and seeing what was really annoying.
6:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-867
Oh.
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-881
So there was some restructuring things where it's like, how can we ensure that this is a process that we can use multiple times?
6:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-882
So like separating out the Flow Factory, separating out the agent and the runner into different files.
6:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-906
And then being able to do plan renewal and then other kind of voice agents.
6:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-923
That was more of just like, it's not very complicated, but just like structural changes.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-938
When you're looking at the GitHub repo versus integrating to our system, they're separating out the client and the server, kicking off an outbound call,
6:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-953
Maybe that might be the best way of thinking about it is how can you build out a script that kicks off a call that integrates with your
7:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-978
existing server
7:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1006
and fast API architecture as opposed to creating its own fast API system, which is what it did.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1008
So it should have let me.
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1026
Yeah, it should have looked at seeing that we have a fast API service and start using it, but also that was definitely on me too.
7:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1032
But it's the, it's the, yeah, I know.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1058
It's the, the vibe code to non vibe code software.
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1066
Yeah, yeah.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1076
Okay, that, that makes sense.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1078
So it's like the, seems like it's kind of just the general, like, Stuff with the kind of stuff that comes with having a fairly complicated system that does a few different things.
7:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1083
Do you already have a Twilio service?
8:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1116
Do you already have everything set up.
8:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1123
Or.
8:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1130
Are you trying to build this out as its own server, as its own system?
8:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1131
As you come to launch it, is there anything that you would wave a magic wand with?
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1146
You're going to start scaling it out a lot soon.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1163
Is there anything that you're anticipating waving a magic wand at?
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1173
I think in terms of the scale plan, we're already able to kick off multiple agents at the same time.
8:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1184
I think we'll definitely get to 10 and then we'll see what the growing pains are.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1204
And then beyond that.
8:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1220
But I think the thing that I'm most concerned about and I don't understand is how do we improve transcription?
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1224
How do we improve speech to our text to speech as well?
9:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1244
I think transcription is the one I'm most concerned about because that's the one that screws up the entire system.
9:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1256
But
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1276
if we're finding that there are delays or there are issues, how do we solve those issues if it's not associated with OpenAI?
9:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1277
Because in terms of improving the prompt and fine tuning, I understand that system, but I don't really know what to do with Deepgram.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1300
Yeah.
9:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1324
Yeah, that's, yeah, we, I mean, we had a lot.
9:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1325
So, yeah, like a diagnosis.
9:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1335
Like, okay, so now we have this working in broad.
9:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1340
We're seeing that in these, like, between these steps in the flow, there is X amount of delay.
9:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1350
So you can see like where in the flow are there issues.
9:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1368
And then what are your options?
9:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1380
How do you improve each of those parts?
9:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1386
And the OpenAI part is easy in terms of Deepgram.
9:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1394
What have you guys found for how can you improve Deepgram?
10:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1404
I think some people are experimenting with the audio isolation stuff.
10:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1415
There's a tool called AI Acoustics.
10:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1426
We haven't implemented it yet, but some people have told us it helps.
10:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1432
There's also another one that's more well known called Krisp, K R I S P.
10:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1445
Oh, I've seen that.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1460
I think Pipecat integrates with Krisp.
10:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1464
Yeah.
10:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1470
So some people, and I think it typically is like the biggest issue is that that's when it's like a difficult, lots of background noise or like that sort of stuff.
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1471
I don't think it will solve like all problems, but I think We have heard that it does make a big difference from a few people.
10:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1502
That makes a lot of sense.
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1528
Yeah, but yeah, I guess there's not that much more.
10:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1534
They have a new model.
10:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1544
I don't know if you saw that.
11:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1549
Flux, Deep Graph, Flux.
11:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1556
They have a new model, so maybe that's something to look at as well.
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1560
Nice.
11:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1574
That's awesome.
11:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1575
I've only heard good things about Flux.
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1577
Okay, cool.
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1584
Yeah, we're trying to integrate Flux, right, Jack?
11:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1586
Yeah.
11:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1594
How do you guys think about the
11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1595
different services you can be using as well?
11:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1602
So I think also 11 Labs is trying to expand into the full pipeline as well.
11:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1610
They're trying to do text-to-speech, speech-to-text.
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1626
I don't know if they have their own AI, like they're trying to create their own agents as well.
11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1632
And then I'm sure Gemini is also can probably jump into each of those as well, maybe.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1651
But what have you guys seen?
11:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1668
Because I think the Deepgram to OpenAI to 11 Labs is kind of the classic.
11:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1674
But what are the other configurations you guys have seen that works really well?
12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1689
We're testing, we've been using rhyme for text to speech because they have limits on concurrency.
12:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1703
So for us, that's like a very useful thing.
12:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1719
I think that the quality of the voice is not quite as good as like, it's definitely not as good as like 11 labs, the best models.
12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1728
But
12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1755
for real time, you can't use the V3 one anyway, I think right now.
12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1756
So,
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1770
yeah, I think, like, I I don't know.
12:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1771
I personally, like, feels like text to speech is not the biggest of deals.
12:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1779
It's like.
12:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1793
No, it's not.
12:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1795
I think.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1798
I think Texas is fine, to be honest.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1800
Yeah, it's, like, good enough.
12:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1808
So I think for.
12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1813
So we spend a lot more time, I guess, thinking about the speech to text.
12:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1817
Yeah.
13:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1832
Yeah, it seems like deep ground flux audio isolation.
13:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1833
Yeah.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1842
And then I think like there's a lot of stuff that's just around like that, that, that like, you know, for latency, just like a lot of tips and tricks of just doing it well, it seems like just spending a lot of time, like just understanding where the latency is and
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1843
yeah,
13:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1895
yeah, but so, I was actually going to ask you one more, like ask you this question, is this basically the one question.
13:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1896
Cool.
13:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1919
But, like, I know I asked you that.
13:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1920
Asked you at the first time within voice AI, but just very curious, like, if we take voice AI out the equation, it could be anything.
13:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1928
Your answer could be the same, but, like, if you could wave a magic wand at, like, anything that's, like, a big problem right now, what would you wave it up?
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1954
Oh.
13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1985
I would love for our systems to be self-improving.
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1986
And I think being able to go from human in the loop to fully autonomous, using Slack as that medium of, hey, this is an AI service.
14:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-1995
It's having issues, diagnose these issues, summarize them on Slack with links to user IDs so that we can address each of the issues with an Ops team.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2022
And then over time, actually replace the Ops team with another agent that is then improving the prompt or is building out a fine tuning data set or is improving the evals itself
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2050
would be fantastic.
14:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2083
I can definitely see it doing those three things.
14:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2086
Then that would kick off a PR and then we'd be able to review that and the system just keeps going.
15:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2095
That's what I want for the first AI system that I was building out for Frtuna and that is what I will want for the voice AI platform as well.
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2116
Wow, that's so cool.
15:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2146
That would be.
15:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2150
Yeah, it's not complicated.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2153
And to be honest, like, like the most of the system, I was working on the whole, like, like writing to Slack, a summary of the issues is just a greater.
15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2157
Like you have to build that greater for anything anyways.
15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2188
So then the next step is really, I think Devin's been doing this where like you're able to integrate with Slack.
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2198
And then kick off an agent that will create a PR, but that process shouldn't be too hard to create a PR because it's just a bunch of Git commands.
15:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2219
That would be so cool.
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2249
I've seen Sentry is starting to do some, I've not looked into it.
16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2254
Are they?
16:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2267
I think they're starting to do here's the bug,
16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2269
And then I don't know.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2278
I've seen them, I've not dug into it yet, but I've seen them doing stuff.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2283
Doing stuff that's super general, I think, will be incredibly hard.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2298
But if you can just enable tools for engineers to build it out themselves, that would be so beautiful.
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2309
If I could just call an API that just did all the whole Slack integration, that'd be great.
16:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2328
And then another API that was like, okay, this is how you kick off APR.
16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2346
That would be great.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2361
And then you're really just like building out the greater yourself.
16:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2365
Yeah, this is so cool.
16:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2376
You're like living in the future.
16:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2381
I love it.
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2387
It's like, I feel like you're living in the past though, because San Francisco is like, everyone there is like, we're creating a new AI code, whatever slop.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2390
Every block, there's a new one that they're making.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2418
And they're like, we're going to have it be very specific for ASIC fab design or something.
17:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2427
Specific to like server engineering or yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2444
So I feel like New York is very much like if you are working in fintech, it's on the cutting edge.
17:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2453
But for AI and for engineering, that's still San Francisco.
17:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2474
Yeah, San Francisco is crazy.
17:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2484
So you have to keep one foot in SF no matter what.
17:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2489
Yeah, absolutely.
17:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2501
Yeah.
17:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2503
Okay, amazing.
17:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2504
The actual one just massive side outcome I was thinking about.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2506
So I felt like I should just test everything as a Vibe coder rather than as a, oh, 100%.
17:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2517
Yeah, yeah.
17:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2536
It's like it and stuff.
17:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2538
It should be like, because right now it's like me, but it's like, it.
17:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2543
Should just, why I say that is because even the best engineers, not me, I'm working on that, but our CTO is incredible.
17:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2557
And even he was saying, Hey, before we raised our series A, everything was on fire.
18:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2580
I was Vibe coding fucking everything.
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2596
Like, I needed to move so fast.
18:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2602
So it's far more to do with urgency than it is to do with anything else.
18:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2609
Yeah, 100%.
18:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2625
But it makes so much sense that we should optimize for that.
18:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2627
And even at the beginning when it's like things are probably harder in a way, like, because like, yeah, this is great.
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2639
Yeah, it bridges make it work to make sure it I like scales.
18:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2661
Yeah.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2674
Yeah.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2675
I think more and more people are kind of getting to that point.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2676
You know, it's like, yeah, we talked about this before, Nathan, that, like, the industry is so young, right?
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2689
Like, so many people just kind of, like, doing demos and then starting to hit production problems.
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2708
And then I feel like there's just this gradient of, like, the.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2725
The wider you scale, the more you run into that we're.
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2737
We're speaking to people who are at various points on that line.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2748
So yeah, they're raised.
19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2760
They don't need to impress investors anymore.
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2764
They need to like execute.
19:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2771
Yeah.
19:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2776
Yeah.
19:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2777
Yeah.
19:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2778
Yeah.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2779
Nathan, thank you so much.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2780
This is super helpful.
19:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2785
Thank you.
19:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2789
Yeah, I'm excited to see you guys in a few weeks.
19:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2791
Or maybe I'll see Jack, right?
19:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2802
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2808
I'll see you before, I think.
19:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2811
And I'll see you.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2817
I'm gonna.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2821
I'm gonna be in New York in, like, 10 days or something, so I need to follow up with you on that and book something in, but.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2823
Yeah.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2850
And then Jack and.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2851
And the rest of the team will be at the hackathon.
19:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2855
Yeah, we have this, like, I have this, like, other event booking thing that's got, like, they could just book, like, five sessions for the tab, if that's okay with you, Nathan, that I could send.
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2866
But maybe we want to.
19:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2902
Oh, sure.
19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2907
And, like, because I'm gonna see you anyway, like, maybe we start it.
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2909
In like six weeks.
19:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2922
Yeah, we can start it in London and then we can discuss.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2926
That sounds great.
19:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2938
Yeah.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2941
Okay, cool.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2942
I'll send it to you anyway and then yeah, cool.
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2944
Sounds awesome.
20:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2954
That's a quick question.
20:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2956
You mentioned one of your colleagues wanted potentially to come to the Hackathon.
20:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2960
I wanted to make sure that if they did reserve their space, I'll check.
20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2973
Back in with them because I think they're also in Texas and they're trying to figure out how to be in London at the same time.
20:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-2987
And I'm like, you can't have two of you.
20:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3013
So I think it's low likelihood that they'll be able to make it.
20:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3022
So I wouldn't stress.
20:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3035
Yeah.
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3039
Cool.
20:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3040
That's great.
20:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3041
Okay.
20:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3043
Perfect.
20:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3044
Well, yeah.
20:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3045
Thanks so much for the time, man.
20:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3047
Really appreciate it.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3054
This is super valuable.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3057
Of course.
20:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3061
Yeah.
20:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3063
Oh, also, if at some point you guys could do a hackathon with,
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3064
I think maybe something that looked really cool too was Gemini and Pipecat are doing a hackathon O the eleventh, so this week end, in San Francisco.
20:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3077
So maybe check out how they did that too, because, um, if you could also get Gemini in the UK, like that would be awesome.
20:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3104
Or like like partnering with like, another one of these organizations, um, could be really cool.
20:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3129
I'm definitely young.
21:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3145
But it sounds like yourre you you're, um it's, uh, it's fully booked, which is a really good sn.
21:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3148
So that's awesome.
21:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3167
Well, voice voice voice Testing voice in a room full of people is an experiment.
21:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3170
Oh yeah, that's gonna be madness.
21:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3185
Yeah, that's gonna be crazy.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3191
Okay, I will make sure I use Crisp.
21:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3196
Also, I just have to say, guys, thank you so much for your advice, especially with Deepgram, because I knew that was gonna be an issue, but I was like, I'll just address this when it comes up.
21:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3204
But at least now I have a little bit more plan, so thanks for that.
21:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3242
Yeah, we're actually working with CloudFlare and Deepgram as well.
21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3257
So
21:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3267
you can do it through Deepgram directly or you can go through CloudFlare.
21:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3268
That's awesome.
21:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3281
Find one that's better than the other.
21:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3283
Cool.
21:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3290
Sweet.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3291
Well, thank you guys so much and I hope you have a good rest of your day.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3292
Thanks, Nathan.
22:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3309
You too.
22:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3311
Cheers.
22:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3313
Bye for now.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3314
Bye.
22:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/21#word-3317

-----

Episode: Nathan French TAB 2
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20

Hello, Nathan.
0:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-0
How you doing?
0:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2
Good.
0:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-5
How's it going?
0:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-6
Yeah, not too bad.
0:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-9
Not too bad.
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-13
Yeah.
0:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-16
Back in London now, so.
0:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-17
Oh, not.
0:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-22
Where were you before?
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-24
So I was visiting Canada because Aiden's in, like.
0:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-28
Victoria near Vancouver.
0:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-37
Oh, okay.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-40
Far West London.
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-42
No.
0:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-45
So most of the, like, there's an engineer.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-46
It is kind of weird.
0:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-54
There's, like, an engineer in Glasgow in Scotland, and then there's me in London.
0:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-59
Damian, the CEO, is in, like, outside of London, like, near kind of near Brighton, if you've got.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-73
I don't know how.
0:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-91
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-95
And then we have one engineer in Egypt and one in Switzerland.
0:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-101
So it's pretty.
0:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-113
It was like kind of like EMEA, like Europe, Middle East, I guess.
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-116
For sure.
1:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-129
West Coast Canada.
1:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-131
So that's crazy.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-134
Yeah, that's very remote.
1:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-137
Yeah.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-141
Yeah.
1:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-142
How have you been?
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-143
Good.
1:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-147
Yeah.
1:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-148
Same old, same old.
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-149
Not too much excited.
1:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-153
I moved into a new place.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-157
Oh, sweet.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-163
But yeah, we're in that same old stuff.
1:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-165
Nice, nice.
1:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-173
That's fun.
1:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-175
You settled in or is it all just chaos?
1:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-177
It's been slow.
1:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-186
I just got a bed frame because I was just sleeping on a mattress on the floor.
1:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-189
Did you're a meme?
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-206
Yeah, the classic.
1:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-210
Did you get a lamp or a chair yet?
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-213
No, I don't have a lamb.
1:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-222
He's got a say, he doesn't need a.
1:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-228
No, but I do have a bed frame and a chair and a couch.
2:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-236
So I'm pretty much set now.
2:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-250
Yeah, it's been slow, but we're working on it slowly.
2:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-256
That's awesome.
2:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-266
That's awesome.
2:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-268
Yeah.
2:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-270
By the way, I'm recording this just because I want to save if that's okay.
2:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-271
Cool.
2:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-286
Yeah, yeah.
2:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-287
Yeah.
2:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-289
Because the last few calls, I've just been like half the time I've been like locked in on the wrong Zoom account and then I'm like, oh shit, hang on one second, let me just come back.
2:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-290
So anyway, that's going if that's okay.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-327
And yeah,
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-334
Yeah, sorry.
2:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-336
So is it okay if I just, so basically, what I wanted to do is just like show you some of the stuff that we've been pulling together.
2:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-338
And this is like, sorry, this is like from what people have said, these are some of the themes that have come out.
2:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-366
And I just wanted to get like your reaction to it to just start to figure out like, and it's very,
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-389
this can be a bit chaotic about how we've put this down because it's really hard to say like, oh, this is the big theme and this is so.
3:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-410
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-439
Anyway, without further ado, I will just share it.
3:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-442
Okay.
3:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-451
Yes.
3:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-452
So, I know that says four, but these are some of the ones that we've been finding and I just want to, like, get a reaction to some of these.
3:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-453
Yeah, yeah, I think that's definitely accurate.
3:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-483
Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, they're for like the conversations feeling natural part, I'd say like a lot of
3:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-490
things like revolve around that, but it's just like a super hard thing, but it's accurate.
4:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-510
It's just like a very wide net, I guess.
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-526
And do you think that, so if we start with like pains, would you say that this is accurate on like your top three or four pains?
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-535
Like, and does it match your ranking?
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-562
Yeah.
4:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-569
Yes.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-570
I think that now it's shifted a good amount in the last month
4:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-571
because I implemented this thing called Crisp that basically amplifies the signal or it removes the background signals and kind of helps the speech to text engine pick up on voice signals and transcribe lower quality audio.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-584
That's actually fixed a lot of stuff for us and a lot of problems that we were having.
5:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-621
Oh, sorry, it's Chris with a K.
5:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-639
Sorry.
5:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-646
Yeah, I've heard really good things about Chris.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-647
Yeah, I would highly, highly recommend.
5:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-655
It.
5:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-661
Yeah, it definitely, I don't know how I felt about it before.
5:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-662
I had heard some good things, but it definitely exceeded my expectations, especially with our use case, because a lot of people are calling in on the move where there is a lot of background noise.
5:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-674
But I'm definitely aware that not all use cases have a lot of background noise or people calling in with background noise.
5:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-710
But
5:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-732
yeah, number two is.
5:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-733
So that might not be number one now, basically.
6:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-737
Yeah, I would say that definitely would.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-746
I mean, I don't even know if I would call that a huge, I mean, I'd still maybe call that a pain, but below
6:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-753
the turn taking.
6:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-777
So, yeah, like, on the bottom of the list, because it still does happen, but now it's like.
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-780
Usually.
6:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-798
Just the person's talking super quietly,
6:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-799
and I'm actually investigating some stuff with.
6:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-805
I think it's AI Acoustics.
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-812
Yeah, we're talking to them, actually.
6:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-817
Yeah, we're gonna.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-823
Yeah,
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-826
yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-827
But they.
6:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-830
Because crisp only removes background signals, whereas aiq6 removes background signals and amplifies the actual voice.
6:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-832
So on
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-848
issues where people are talking quietly, in theory, it'll, like, amplify that and still be able to, like, extract a signal from it.
7:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-850
So.
7:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-873
That I would assume that would pretty much like solve the transcription issues
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-874
that we're having.
7:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-887
But that and like keyword prompting with deepgram too.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-890
But.
7:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-899
Yeah, I definitely don't, I wouldn't say like as of now it's a huge issue that I'm like worried about.
7:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-900
What would you say is your number one?
7:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-920
Yeah, or were you asking me or Aiden?
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-928
Sorry, you, Nathan.
7:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-936
Yeah, yeah.
7:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-939
I was making sure.
7:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-941
I would still definitely say
7:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-945
Evals is like the biggest thing because we implemented deep ground flux, which is like a, I'm sure you're aware, but it's like a speech to text with a turn taking model built into the species text layer.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-950
And I implemented that and like we're using it for a couple of our production clients just because it's a sandbox URL and we don't want to like just put it on everyone just in case it goes down.
8:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-988
But we have it on like some low priority customers just to like see how it works in the real world.
8:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1027
And it's just like we had a I don't think it was due to flux, but we had some regression in the voice stack and the.
8:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1048
Our database was just, like, locking, and no one.
8:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1074
It's been, like, the whole weekend, basically, and no one really knows why.
8:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1083
And it's something like.
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1096
I don't know, it's.
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1100
It's something like async related.
8:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1104
I think something's blocking the event Loop, but.
9:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1109
No one really knows.
9:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1117
So
9:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1121
I think observability into what's going on in the voice stack is still
9:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1122
the number one thing, which, I mean, this is more like traditional software engineering, I guess, but there's still elements of the voice stack and there's some things that are fully voice stack.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1135
Evals into pronunciation would be something that's fully voice stack.
9:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1168
But yeah, the observability stuff is just such a huge pain.
9:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1178
Yeah.
9:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1189
What have you tried there actually on the observability?
9:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1190
So we use this thing called Hamming.
9:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1199
It's just like we hired someone to take care of it and it didn't work out.
9:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1206
He, like, passed it on to someone else, and it's just like,
9:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1222
the main.
10:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1234
I guess we're just, like, hammering it out, and there's, like, a couple Kinks, like, with hamming.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1236
The idea is, like, you have a bunch of these agents running in parallel that are just, like, stress testing your thing, and.
10:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1253
We have like text to speech concurrency limits.
10:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1276
So when we're running these tests, like it obviously like hits the concurrency limits pretty quickly.
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1284
So
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1300
so yeah, there's just like a couple of kinks like that that have slowed down the development of that.
10:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1301
But.
10:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1320
Yeah, Interesting.
10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1321
Yeah, that's that's the only thing we've done so far though.
10:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1323
And then I want to get us.
10:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1334
On.
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1341
Deep eval, which is like a pie test like LLM eval thing, but that only works on transcripts.
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1342
So it
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1360
it's like good enough because the voice stuff is obviously just like working off of transcripts, but It's still not ideal because it wouldn't pick up stuff like pronunciations, etc.
11:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1362
Yeah.
11:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1392
Makes a lot of sense.
11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1393
Never.
11:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1398
That's like such a weird thing that I would not have thought about, but like how concurrency would be like a massive issue in like tests.
11:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1399
It's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1425
It makes sense, I guess.
11:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1431
Or extremely slow to run, I guess.
11:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1436
Yeah.
11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1443
It's, yeah, it's pretty annoying.
11:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1444
It's pretty annoying for sure.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1449
But yeah, I mean, I can't even think about like how, I mean, I guess the best way to do it is just like not run as many concurrent tests and just have it run like nightly or something.
11:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1454
But.
12:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1493
We still haven't gotten that figured out fully.
12:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1494
But.
12:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1502
Yeah, kind of on that same note too, with the,
12:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1503
like the second point, the like hard to reliably know how well conversations are doing.
12:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1513
There's not really any benchmark that makes sense for like, I know Deepgram tried to make one called like the Vaki, like VAQI, but it's, I think voice is like one of those things that is really hard to figure out, like logical benchmarks.
12:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1528
So that also makes it hard because it's not like
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1572
it's very non-trivial to make benchmarks that actually align with human preference with voice.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1582
Yeah.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1596
I was surprised when I was reading about some of the way they developed.
12:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1597
I don't know if that's what said to you already, but like reading about how they were doing, like, how to actually create the models and like a lot of it, like it is a gold standard, right?
13:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1611
So I should just ask like humans, like, do you prefer this?
13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1649
Yeah, I generate this out of ten.
13:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1661
Like, yes, it sounds natural.
13:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1668
Yeah.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1673
Yeah.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1674
And it turns out that like humans don't agree with each other on those preference benchmarks like over 50% of the time.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1675
So
13:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1697
there's a research paper.
13:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1698
I forgot how long it was.
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1702
It was kind of a while, like a few months ago, but It was saying that like using an LM as an evaluator is actually more consistent with human preference than a human, like guessing if that would line up with human preference.
13:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1708
So like an AI is more likely to agree with a human preference in a lot of domains rather than like two humans.
13:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1751
Oh, if they agree with each other.
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1774
So like they're kind of it's closer to the mean or whatever.
13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1781
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
14:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1793
Yeah.
14:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1796
Yeah.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1797
Which is like really funny to think about, but I guess like there's a lot of difference in human preference and these sort of things.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1798
Yeah.
14:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1823
Yeah.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1824
Wow.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1825
That's cool.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1826
Yeah.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1828
I'm not sure like that.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1829
There's that guy, though, like the vibes guy that was like the
14:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1834
producer.
14:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1846
Anyway, wait what?
14:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1847
You know, there's that meme where there's that producer that's got like the good taste.
14:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1850
I can't remember his name, but the guy with the big beard.
14:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1865
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1877
He's like, what are you giving me?
14:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1883
And he's like, absolutely nothing.
14:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1890
Unless you have, unless you find that human.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1895
Okay, wait, so what, so I think, so we've got your, so your number one
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1903
is evals.
14:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1918
What would you say is your number two problem, pain?
14:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1920
Number two pain?
14:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1930
Yeah.
14:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1933
I mean, as a company or just in the voice stack specifically?
15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1934
Well, kind of curious on the company if you think it could be relevant on the- yeah, yeah.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1946
I mean, I guess this is super specific to the industry, like the car dealership industry, but
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1964
onboarding customers and the customer relations, aspect of how
15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1981
car dealerships work is really difficult to get right.
15:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1990
We basically need a dedicated Ford deployed engineer for every dealership.
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-1999
And relationship building is so important because we were
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2010
toying around with the idea of making a voice agent that would just onboard customers because our, our onboarding process is, like,
15:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2019
very long, like months long.
15:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2041
And there's just a lot of back and forth between, like, our team and the dealership.
16:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2046
So we were toying around with an idea of just making a voice agent that would speed up the onboarding process, but it's, they They just like really do not want to onboard that way.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2062
And so it's really hard to like kind of hit a flywheel where we're like automatically onboarding people where they can just like sign up and just like go.
16:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2097
It's, there's still like a super slow customer onboarding process.
16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2126
Um, so it's not really clear, like, how to best do that except just like hiring more people.
16:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2136
But yeah, I think we'll definitely have to figure something out for that.
16:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2154
But our competitors are in like the exact same boat with onboarding as well.
16:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2167
So it's definitely not just like an us thing, but it's something I wouldn't have expected because I would think that you could just build a voice agent or something like that that would just like collect some subset of or some set of information and it would just work.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2181
But yeah, it doesn't.
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2231
Interesting.
17:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2235
Do you think there's any technology that could help you with onboarding?
17:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2236
I think like not on the voice, not on the voice side.
17:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2248
I think most of it would just be like developing tooling that are customer service team can use where they can just click a button on the dashboard and it just automatically
17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2260
fill something out over, I mean, maybe something that would take the transcript of a call and just trigger some tooling to fill in information from the transcript or something.
17:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2292
But
18:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2322
it's just like a hard problem because there's so much back and forth.
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2323
With dealers and a lot of times like the dealerships don't know what systems they use because like someone set it up like 30 years ago and those people left.
18:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2336
So it's like they don't know what CRM they use and it's like, okay, well, we kind of need that to move forward.
18:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2366
But yeah, that's one of our bigger, I guess like pain points.
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2389
It's like a very manual process.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2401
Now.
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2407
Yeah.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2408
I can definitely say you're not alone on that.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2409
I think this is something that we're hearing quite a lot, actually.
18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2418
And.
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2430
Oh, really?
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2431
Yeah.
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2433
Yeah.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2434
Is it Integrations?
18:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2435
Is that part of it?
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2438
Like you mentioned, CRN.
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2443
Yeah.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2447
Yeah.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2448
We.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2449
We have a lot of Integrations, and every dealership has, like.
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2450
Obviously like different integrations.
19:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2461
And
19:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2465
so we integrate with all of them now, but it's just the dealerships, like I was shocked.
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2466
Like so many dealerships just don't know like what technology they use.
19:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2483
And so it's like we have to be like, okay, like this is how you check.
19:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2495
And if it's over email, like that correspondence can take a very long time just like going back and forth.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2511
So our strategy now is just like trying to get on a call with them like as quickly as possible and just doing everything over a call where you can just like bang out everything in like the shortest number of call sessions as possible.
19:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2531
Cause the email stuff takes like so long to like every single time something has to be done over email.
19:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2576
You just like, it takes a minimum of a week or two.
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2596
So it's for like even simple things.
20:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2608
So
20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2615
yeah, but it would be nice if we could have like ultra realistic voice agents that that like literally are indistinguishable from humans.
20:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2616
But I think that would kind of solve a lot of our issues here.
20:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2639
Yeah, that's that's the challenge here.
20:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2653
It feels like.
20:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2659
It's a lot of human
20:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2662
challenges, I don't know.
20:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2667
Yeah.
20:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2671
Interesting.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2672
Very, very interesting.
20:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2673
If you had to say a number three, would you have a sort of a number three in mind?
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2676
Number three.
20:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2695
Pain.
20:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2697
I mean,
20:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2698
most of them are like smaller things.
20:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2700
There's like a lot of small things, I'd say.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2707
I wouldn't say there's like any
21:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2716
huge problems that,
21:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2722
I mean, the LLM would be
21:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2725
one thing.
21:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2731
Azure's OpenAI endpoints are just getting slammed and we're seeing time to first tokens with three seconds sometimes.
21:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2733
I built an LM gateway that can just route responses using a load balancer.
21:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2751
If any requests are taking a while, it'll just start routing requests elsewhere to the lowest latency endpoints.
21:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2765
But.
21:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2783
But each.
21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2784
Each LM has, like, different little quirks.
21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2786
So Gemini, it'll.
21:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2793
I mean, they're.
21:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2796
Each one has, like, super small quirks about it that make it so it's, like, technically compatible, but you still have to do more work.
21:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2799
So, like, with Gemini.
22:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2824
What was the issue with Gemini?
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2828
Oh yeah, it was just like a function call to return inventory.
22:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2834
Someone would ask, Hey, do you have any Kia Souls in stock?
22:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2846
And it would run the inventory tool call and it would get a bunch of information.
22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2858
And let's say there is a Kia Soul in SOC and it's like a 2024 or whatever, then it would just.
22:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2874
Say.
22:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2895
2024, Kia Soul.
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2896
And it's just like not a human like way of talking.
22:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2899
And there's no real way to know that it would like, it's just super random, but it's just like something that you have to prompt away.
22:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2910
Like make sure to, I don't know,
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2936
basically talk like a human.
22:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2943
But
22:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2948
there's so many little quirks that you'd think that just making a load balancer and just like distributing traffic would just work because you'd think that all LLMs respond like about the same.
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2949
But.
23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2982
There'S actually a lot of variation in how like each type of LLM responds and each one has like its own sort of tone that may or may not be what you're looking for in your agent.
23:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-2983
So
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3020
it's kind of hard.
23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3021
So, like, seems like you can just swap them out, but you actually can't do that.
23:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3025
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3041
Yeah, exactly.
23:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3044
Specific quirks.
23:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3046
Yeah, yeah.
23:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3048
And there's a lot of companies that make these, like, LM gateways.
23:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3050
Yeah.
23:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3062
Like, LM.
23:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3063
Like, a lot of these things that popped up, but it's like, it's.
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3065
It's a really good idea, but, like, at the end of the day, I think.
23:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3078
It for sure speeds up the process a lot, but there's still like some small details that
23:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3093
always have to be custom.
24:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3110
That is super interesting.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3115
Yeah.
24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3119
It's a fun time.
24:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3120
Just all this stuff.
24:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3124
Yeah.
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3128
Just quickly, Nathan, if I could ask you to describe, so we've got the pains, what would be like, sorry, we've got these pains, like your pains.
24:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3129
So I guess just the first two really.
24:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3156
If you had to describe what the gain would be from like evals, if you were waving, going back to that kind of like magic wand and you're describing what your number one gain would be like.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3164
How would you describe that?
24:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3201
So like describing the gain associated with emails?
24:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3206
Yeah.
24:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3214
Yeah.
24:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3215
Yeah.
24:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3216
I mean the biggest thing is just knowing before the customers that something's gone wrong.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3217
Because even with the time to first token,
25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3232
I mean the time to first token is actually a really easy example because you can just have like a rolling average of that.
25:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3240
But with some of the voice things, like if, I don't know, like your voice is just 25% of the time pronouncing a dealership name wrong.
25:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3264
It's due to like some update that 11 Labs pushed out.
25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3290
Then we, in an ideal world, we would know that before we start getting complaints about it.
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3301
So we can have it fixed and we don't get mad customers saying that like this thing's pronouncing my dealership's name wrong, which happens more than you think.
25:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3318
But.
25:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3346
Just generally there's a lot of problems with
26:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3347
that sort of thing.
26:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3355
Integrations will sometimes just fail, tool calls will fail.
26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3359
And if there's an underlying issue, we always just want to know before a customer either figures out about it or before a customer complains to us.
26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3368
Because right now,
26:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3395
our process is basically just waiting for a customer to complain.
26:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3398
And then if we happen to get an alert from
26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3409
an uptime alert or something, Then
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3419
I mean we might be able to fix it, but it's it's it's not the way to run a business.
26:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3425
I'll tell you that.
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3445
Yeah,
26:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3449
yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3450
Relate.
26:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3453
Yeah.
26:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3454
Yeah.
26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3455
Okay.
26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3456
And then also for the same for the onboarding if you I mean, I guess we didn't talk about what this might be, but like yeah, for sure.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3457
That was a magical product.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3485
Like what would yeah.
27:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3490
Yeah, definitely just reducing the number of days to onboard someone is like the main thing.
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3494
So, I mean, like in an ideal world, someone would just have like a self-serve product because it's really hard to scale things when you have to work on a one-on-one correspondence with a dealership and it's taking like 60 days to start collecting payment.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3510
And it's just like a lot of stress on our customer support team, having to like have that one on one sort of thing where I think like to scale anything, it kind of has to be like somewhat self serve.
27:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3555
If you're trying to get to more than like a couple hundred customers, you just can't manually onboard people.
27:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3596
Yeah, yeah, true.
28:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3615
Yeah.
28:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3618
Yeah, that's okay.
28:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3619
That's amazing.
28:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3622
And are you happy with this order again?
28:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3624
Number one evals, number two, boarding?
28:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3632
Yeah, yeah, I think that's good.
28:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3638
Yeah, I think that's good.
28:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3644
Amazing.
28:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3649
I think we're coming towards the end, so I don't want to go down the rabbit hole.
28:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3650
End up going talking over time.
28:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3667
But this is extremely, extremely helpful.
28:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3673
Thank you so much.
28:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3679
Well, yeah, of course.
28:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3683
Yeah, really, really appreciate it.
28:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3687
Yeah, we're just like, if you're happy to still chat in like another month, we're going to start to like kind of get your feedback on like how we're thinking about things.
28:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3692
And I think we need to start talking about some of these challenges as well internally because some of us, some of them keep coming up again and again.
28:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3724
Yeah.
28:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3753
And by the way, just as an aside, I think you're, like, really good at, like, describing challenges and also just, like, even just, like, what's the gain here?
28:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3754
You're just like, yeah, let me go.
29:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3783
Like, whereas, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3790
I don't know.
29:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3796
You're just very sharp on that, so.
29:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3799
Thank you.
29:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3806
Yeah.
29:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3808
We're doing a lot of these, so definitely.
29:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3809
That's not.
29:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3817
That's not normal.
29:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3819
Like, you know, you're smart, dude, so.
29:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3822
Just to say thank you again for your time.
29:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3829
It's such an amazing thing to just hear, because you're so obviously right at the cutting edge of this.
29:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3838
To just hear the things that you're struggling with is like so interesting.
29:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3857
Yeah, thank you.
29:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3870
Thank you very much.
29:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3873
Thank you so much, Nathan, and look forward to chatting again in a month.
29:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3877
Yeah, likewise.
29:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3891
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
29:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3893
All right, have a good one.
29:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3897
Thanks.
29:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3903
Appreciate it.
29:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3904
See you later.
29:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3906
Bye.
30:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/20#word-3909

-----

Episode: Jeff Gelfuso - Qualtrics - TAB 1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19

Sorry.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-0
So yeah, I don't know, this is, it's difficult to ask questions to someone that's like, oh, such a, the whole background of like, cold tricks.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1
Like, you guys are the experts in this.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-27
Yeah, no, no, not at all.
0:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-35
Go for it.
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-41
No wrong right way to do it.
0:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-44
Yeah.
0:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-51
So one of the things that we just, there's kind of these questions we're asking and the big one that we're, asking everyone is like when you're moving, when you're looking at kind of moving forward with voice AI,
0:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-52
if there's anything that you could kind of wave like a magic wand at and just make it better or you
0:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-91
would just wave it at that.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-112
Is there anything?
0:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-118
Yeah, so we're talking about this a lot and actually, Aaron and Stuart were We're here just, I don't know, a month or two months ago, whenever that was.
0:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-121
We were showing them some of the things that we're doing on the innovation side of trying to move a lot of the old school survey-based type responses to things that are going to be more natural than that.
1:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-150
Voice is a great example of that.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-189
One of the challenges
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-196
in doing so
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-200
right now is latency and cost.
1:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-203
So
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-209
and what Stuart was showing me, which I think you guys are trying to solve, I just haven't spent enough time on it myself to understand is as a global company, obviously, I think the language picker part, so to say, it has gotten easier.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-210
The latency, depending on where that capability is served from, in which data center, from in which location, right, globally
1:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-255
becomes harder because then it's at least that I know, I don't know of one specific partner that you can pick that's going to be great at all three of those things today.
1:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-275
I think what I understood a little bit more, and I didn't know before talking to Stuart about this more deeply, is you might have to have multiple providers in different regions to be able to make sure you've got both the right languages, less so now, but the right amount of capacity and latency solved.
2:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-308
And then of course there's the cost to that.
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-364
And some of those are much higher cost and some of those are lower cost.
2:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-373
And so those are some of the challenges that if I was to wave a wand today, I'd be like, boy, I don't want to have to think about that at all.
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-388
I would want to think about it like a hyperscaler where I'm like, AWS is everywhere.
2:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-420
We pick them based on the capabilities they provide, the cost they provide, the latency dance, and I could make a decision.
2:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-436
That would be ideal.
3:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-458
I don't think we're there yet from what I understand from a voice perspective.
3:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-462
Maybe we are.
3:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-476
Maybe you guys would know better than me.
3:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-479
Maybe we're making advances there faster than I'm even aware of, but that seemed to be some of the challenges balancing those things.
3:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-487
And
3:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-510
if
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-511
we were able to
3:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-512
just give you that, or if you have that, how would it change your life?
3:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-516
Well, we have this belief
3:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-531
and it's backed by some of our data in moving from more traditional, I'm going to call them surveys, but I'll say to all of you, Just think about them as a listening engine because we trigger them in different ways, right?
3:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-536
There's you're on a commerce website and you're trying something, you're trying something, you're trying something, and it's like not working and you're getting frustrated.
3:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-578
We can sense that frustration and pop you a survey, right?
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-603
That's an example of it.
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-614
I just got one this morning in Spotify and the app that was like, how's the listening experience?
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-619
Take the survey.
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-637
So there's lots of different ways that we can invoke that.
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-640
Where I would love to see this go and what it could enable us to do is be more dynamic in the delivery of the type of listening you were able to do based on a series of factors.
4:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-651
So let me give you my Spotify example.
4:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-690
Let's say I'm listening and instead of it being something that I get that popped up in the app and I have to actually tap it and then I'm going to, because it's Qualtrics, they're our customer.
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-698
I'm going to have to type into, like most of the time when I listen to Spotify, I'm on the car or on the walk.
4:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-735
Like if I got that survey and it just knew that, oh, this is a
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-760
music based or a audio based thing and it said, tell us what you think.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-775
And I was like, great.
5:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-790
And it just talked to me and I did it all via voice.
5:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-795
I'd probably be much more likely to do that.
5:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-808
Survey like that and have a better experience in doing that where maybe if I was using
5:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-817
Jira, I don't know, and they said, take a certain, like, okay, great.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-834
Would I stop?
5:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-847
I'm on my laptop, I'm doing work.
5:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-850
It's between 9:00 to 5:00.
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-857
Would I stop and do a voice-based one?
5:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-862
Maybe.
5:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-870
But I might just be able to do it like easy text.
5:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-871
Or voice to text or something like that.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-883
So the context awareness
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-891
of
5:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-895
the options that I would want to have, I think will become more and more important and more differentiated.
5:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-896
You can imagine the different verticals like quick serve restaurants, retail,
5:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-915
Hospitality.
6:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-926
Some of these are really cool now.
6:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-927
It's not after the fact you go to a Marriott, you have a great stay, the minute you check in, you get a text, right?
6:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-934
And it's now not after the fact, it's in the moment.
6:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-959
Like, that'd be way cooler if I could just be like, hey, yeah, the champagne was awesome.
6:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-970
I don't have a tea time booked.
6:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-987
I don't like whatever.
6:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-994
Like, how do I use the pool or reserve a cabana?
6:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-998
Like, you're now having this kind of in the moment interaction.
6:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1009
If I've got to type all those things that that gets more cumbersome, then there's going to be some that have more regulatory
6:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1020
compliance that you have to have that may be limit.
6:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1043
So it's a long winded way of saying like the best of the best would be when the spectrum of those delivery and modalities is flexible.
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1053
Yeah.
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1079
And is there anything about making it flexible
7:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1080
that you would wave the magic wand out like specifically within the kind of like making it flexible?
7:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1088
I know you mentioned.
7:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1106
Yeah, probably like modality because like 11 Labs right now can do if you start speaking in Spanish and they've done it, it'll switch over and change from English to Spanish.
7:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1110
It was kind of magical and feels pretty cool.
7:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1141
And back and forth, right?
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1150
But
7:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1155
I would want to have an understanding of the type of customer in the type of industry and the type of listening they would want to do and have some dynamic modality choices.
7:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1156
It sounds really nerdy, but I know you know what I mean by that.
7:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1189
So Spotify's all mobile.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1203
It's all an audio thing.
7:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1207
Don't ever give me a text-based survey on Spotify.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1212
That's the same stupid.
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1221
So if I could do that and I could provide that, our customers could select those kinds.
8:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1225
I just got my burger, I'm walking out of the restaurant, I go to grab a bite and the thing's cold.
8:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1242
Am I going to go whip out a laptop or get on my phone and find the contact that no, I should be able to be like,
8:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1263
Hey, I got this.
8:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1290
How was your...
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1294
Hey, it sucked.
8:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1297
The burger was cold.
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1300
Whatever.
8:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1304
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1305
Less friction.
8:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1308
Yeah.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1310
Right, that's right.
8:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1311
Yeah.
8:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1314
And is there anything about, like, is there anything that makes this more valuable now than it was like a year ago or two years ago or even longer?
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1315
AI in general, like, they're just, the advances now are so fast, they're changing so fast.
8:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1344
I don't know if there's a new law, but like Moore's law, like you just now the cost part of it just like moving to the cloud was before, like pretty soon that's gonna be a race to the bottom or cents, not dollars.
8:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1360
And then the cost question will be less of an important
9:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1404
but it's still a near-term thing because for somebody like Qualtrics, We've moved from, with the exception of one business, but we've moved from licensing per seat to interactions, right, and how we charge.
9:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1415
And so what we want and what's valuable to brands or customers is increased number of interactions.
9:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1449
So the more surveys that are responded to and completed, the more call centers contacts that are deflected, the more like those are all interactions.
9:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1466
We get paid on like you buy 100,000 interactions, use 90, great, use 120, we make more, we need to charge you more, use 30, you want your money back, right?
9:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1491
Like so there's some threshold there where we're trying to manage that.
10:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1522
But what's great about it is that the business gets more data, the customer gets more data, which is more valuable to them because they can use AI to analyze it and target specific things.
10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1534
We get more interactions, which we can charge more for.
10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1569
So it's beneficial to both the customer and to us.
10:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1579
AI has changed that radically.
10:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1589
And even in our most recent conversational surveys, you can say,
10:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1594
How was the game?
10:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1605
Game was great, but the food was bleh.
10:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1609
What do you mean it was bleh?
10:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1617
It can detect that it was, and you say, well, they didn't have the menu items.
10:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1624
What other items would you have liked?
10:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1640
I'm gluten free, so I would have loved better choices than just chicken fingers and French fries.
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1647
Now you have all this great data that the business says, and what we've actually seen in that AI implementation of a survey, is it's more natural, people are having more of a conversation, they're getting more valuable data because now you can target those specific things.
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1664
We're able to increase the number of interactions we have and we actually saw that even responses went up because the person felt more heard versus just you got the one thing and you moved on to the next thing and they're like, okay, I'm done with this, like stupid, right?
11:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1711
So that those advances crazy, crazy good in the last year, and I think we'll continue to be.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1762
Yeah.
11:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1780
Yeah.
11:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1781
It's amazing.
11:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1782
It's cool hearing about it, like, at the scale that you guys operate.
11:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1784
Yeah.
11:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1797
Is there, is there a number two thing that you would wave a magic wand at?
11:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1798
I don't know if this Lots of number two things, probably.
12:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1814
But they probably have more to do with organizational dynamics, culture, speed of building, things that Aaron knows so well that we've dealt with and deal with in large organizations that probably have less to do with the technology or the solution.
12:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1825
Specific to voice and AI that way.
12:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1867
Yeah, that makes sense.
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1874
Do you just mean like compliance and red tape and procurement and all that kind of like, is that what you're talking about, Jeff?
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1878
No, I think, I mean, sure, those things eat away at your soul, right?
12:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1902
But
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1916
I mean more like some of the new tools and things we're exploring
12:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1917
Subframe lovable cursor, when certain, like just they just help you build so much faster.
13:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1930
Aaron's using Claude code and building like,
13:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1945
like never thought Aaron would be doing it.
13:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1952
Never thought.
13:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1960
Never thought, right?
13:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1962
So when I think my magic wand is, when I say it's more the cultural things, the tools I just had a town hall this morning where we were talking about, because now I'm leading all the product and all of experience, and I'm bringing those two organizations together like I had previously when I worked with Aaron.
13:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-1965
More and more of that now is like, well, but a product manager can build a prototype.
13:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2023
What does that mean for me as a designer?
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2040
Designer can write a great strategy document.
13:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2049
What does that mean to me?
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2056
The tools now are blurring the lines of the roles.
13:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2062
A little bit, we'll all figure that out.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2072
When you're in a small company like yours, someone like Erin wears 10 hats and now can do things that she never could do before.
14:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2080
That's amazing.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2105
You're not limited by the cultural
14:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2107
inertia of that because Aiden, Jack, Erin, Stuart sit together and go, well, we don't want to do it.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2113
Erin should do it.
14:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2132
And Erin figures it out, right?
14:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2136
I have to go, what does that mean for HR?
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2142
Is our roles gonna change to compensation to where we recruit from?
14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2152
Like all that shit.
14:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2164
So like, if I could just focus on how do we build better and wave my wand on that second thing,
14:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2168
I don't think you guys are set up to solve that.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2189
But
14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2200
that is gonna be huge for big companies over the next several years.
14:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2201
Does.
15:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2214
Any of that more make voice AI specifically more difficult to bring in or are there any specific challenges around voice AI?
15:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2215
None more than I think what we talked about, which is kind of the scale, latency, cost, stuff like that.
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2237
When you demo an experience, and people do it and it's voice based, it's so natural.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2257
It blows people away.
15:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2273
It just, it totally blows them away because, and the things that you would even, my example I gave you about our conversational, that's still text based or, and you know, you're typing,
15:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2277
even though we're seeing more turns and greater detail and responses, there's still only a level to where that will go because you're just like, I'm not going to type this out, this whole entire thing.
15:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2310
But if I was just going, oh yeah, my Spotify experience, it's great, I love all the music, I wish they had these artists, tell me more about that.
15:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2346
You're just having a cut, you're going to say 10 times more because it just feels natural.
16:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2375
And when people actually take it and we've built both, they go, that didn't even feel like taking a survey.
16:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2392
And that's a huge, you don't have that without voice, that's a huge deal.
16:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2412
Super interesting.
16:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2426
Yeah.
16:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2428
Was there any of the voice AI providers that you've looked at and just love to know how you've been thinking.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2429
About.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2450
Evaluating them and that sort of thing?
16:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2451
Yeah, if you guys want to do a follow up, Dave on my team who Aaron and Stuart Matt is way more versed in this stuff than me and he's been building the prototype that we showed Aaron and Stuart was from subframe to Supabase to 11 Labs to cursor or some version of all those together to build this dynamic, AI driven.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2458
And what's really cool about the way he did it was you can bring in things like Braden guidelines and knowledge-based articles, and you can adjust tone, all the things that you would expect, right?
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2521
Pick a second language, do these type of things.
17:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2556
But what's pretty game changing about it is how AI can ask in real time
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2565
based on the variation of your answers.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2580
And that's our unique part to it that we obviously will continue to build out on and understand sentiment and more like those emotions than the specific just things that are more black and white that you don't get.
17:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2587
Eventually, I think voice could help even with tone and inflection.
18:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2626
Like, could you like we have it right now where if it detected words that said, hey, you know, I'm super busy.
18:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2637
I got to go.
18:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2659
It knows to skip all, oh, I got to go to the very last question and see if I get them to answer that.
18:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2663
Right.
18:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2687
So.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2688
So there's some of those things, but it doesn't know if I'm like, like, it probably could hear that, but it.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2689
Or maybe it was like, like, could it, could it?
18:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2710
Or if I was like, this is so joyful and wonderful.
18:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2720
Like, could it understand?
18:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2731
Asking.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2735
Right.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2736
You don't get that with text.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2737
You don't get that with, but you could with voice.
18:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2743
So that could be like imagine a patient experience where there was a high level of anxiety maybe.
18:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2753
And could you detect that?
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2771
And then, or maybe it was after some kind of major event and you could detect more of that emotion and tone, that could be really interesting.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2776
Yeah, that'll be so amazing.
19:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2803
Yeah, I think those were all of the questions that I had, but I don't know if Aaron, Aiden have questions.
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2808
Yeah, and I was going to offer if we want to set up something with Dave, kind of demo some of that and just show you guys.
19:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2829
I think it was pretty illuminating for Stuart and Aaron when we showed them, but happy to do that as well.
19:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2856
Yeah, that's so I think that'd be great, Jeff.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2877
Thank you.
19:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2886
I think we'll take you up on that.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2888
And like just hearing you talk about that, I think, you know, these are the most interesting places for voice, something I was talking to Damian about yesterday and is a real area of interest for us is like, like you said, kind of multimodality.
19:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2896
It's like just meet someone where they are.
19:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2941
Like where is voice actually good versus where is text good?
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2949
And there's been a couple of products we've played with and then actually a lot of conversations with people in healthcare building agents.
19:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2960
This has come up where like data capture when it's a name or insurance number, you need 100% accuracy on that stuff.
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-2983
And so voice actually isn't so good for some of that because there's agents that do outbound calling and they get someone's name wrong and it's like the whole thing's frustrating for everyone and the results useless.
20:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3005
Right, right.
20:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3042
Whereas obviously the areas, so places like that, it's like can you integrate SMS capture to the first step.
20:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3044
So we know 100% who you are before we have an agent speak to you.
20:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3063
But then as you said, areas where you actually want someone to just like tell you their thoughts and get more from them.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3078
Voice is great.
20:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3101
It's way better than text for a lot of the stuff you guys are doing.
20:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3104
So yeah, I could imagine with like medication names.
20:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3119
Oh my god.
20:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3128
Yeah, exactly.
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3131
Right.
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3133
And it's like the user might not even know the name.
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3134
Right.
20:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3145
You can think of all these edge cases, but I think where these systems get really powerful is like, okay, where they nail which modality makes sense, how do we actually meet you in the place where it's low friction for you to get us more from you?
20:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3146
And then as I said, if the voice system can actually, the other thing that voice has that is tone and emotion and all these things, which you don't get that at all from text.
21:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3194
So as you're thinking about, I think that's where this stuff gets really powerful and probably more fun for the user, which means more engagement and more data.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3229
So I'll give you a great example.
21:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3257
We're doing some of that in our surveys for customers like Marriott who have multiple brands.
21:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3264
So for somebody like they own the St.
21:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3280
Regis, it's more, good evening, Mrs.
21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3288
Sullivan.
21:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3294
How was your dinner tonight?
21:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3295
Where at the Moxie, it's like, yo, what's up?
21:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3300
And you could literally change it by brand, I'm being extreme about it, but you get the idea.
21:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3309
That's super powerful for multi-brand companies.
21:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3327
And it's only kind of happening in text right now.
21:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3333
It could also be, and the voice part of it is only more like language or
22:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3343
regional inflection accent.
22:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3359
So you get the British accent for the use.
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3362
But imagine if it could be like,
22:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3371
Hip hop tone language.
22:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3378
I don't know.
22:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3382
You're gonna meet the user where they are, right?
22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3385
We heard literally yesterday, like people in Texas want to hear on the phone someone with a Texan accent calling them to ask them questions like conversion rates higher.
22:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3394
Yes.
22:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3423
You think about that across every state in every country.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3424
Right, right.
22:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3434
But you could even think about it generationally as well, where there are certain words, our kids, don't say anymore or wouldn't say or wouldn't even, it wouldn't, you know, even impact it.
22:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3436
And you could change that knowing some of that information and the demographics on the fly would be cool.
22:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3469
I was just thinking what you said about the burgers, Jeff, because you guys have Kentucky Fried Chicken as a customer, isn't that right?
23:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3488
Like imagine someone's got chicken all over their hands and you do a survey, you probably should voice it.
23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3512
Well, what we're not doing yet in those specific regions, like right now I think some of those customers do a QR code scan on a receipt.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3531
First of all, whoever keeps their receipt for a $6 meal, right?
23:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3558
Second of all, probably if you kept that receipt and then you were walking out and you had hot sauce on your hands and you hated the chicken, are you going to really pull that out, scan it with your phone, If you do that, all that kind of effort, it's probably because you're going to give us a negative review.
23:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3570
Not, this is the best damn chicken I've ever had.
23:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3631
Like maybe, but so what we're not doing a good job yet is,
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3641
I would say the good examples are hospitality where you check in and the bigger companies send you a text and now you start having a dialogue.
23:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3654
So you have a during stay experience.
24:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3681
Not only a post day experience.
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3688
That's really valuable.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3694
We haven't done a good job of understanding that after a hair appointment or a rest.
24:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3697
I was in a restaurant or like, could we could you have some kind of geofencing or some kind of way where, hey, I was just in this place.
24:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3713
I left that place.
24:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3742
Bing!
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3746
Automatically pops up on my phone and says, how is the chicken?
24:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3747
Oh, okay.
24:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3759
That's pretty cool.
24:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3761
Now I might say, oh, tasty.
24:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3764
But if you have to do all those jumps and hoops, it's probably because you just really are pissed off and you're going to do it.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3770
Otherwise, you're pretty much not giving any feedback at all.
24:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3796
Retribution feedback.
24:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3806
Yeah.
24:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3808
So I wonder about location a lot in our industries, whether that was a hospital, a doctor appointment, a restaurant visit.
24:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3809
What other new capabilities will come up that then you could combine with different modalities and then different ways to have those text or voice kind of entries.
25:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3830
Who knows?
25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3858
Maybe eventually five stars can just be like Zoom says, how was it?
25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3860
I go, and I gave it five stars.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3873
I don't know.
25:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3881
That could be cool.
25:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3884
So cool.
25:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3888
Jeff, I realized we're at time, so I don't want to make you late for anything, but I just want to say thank you so much.
25:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3890
Like, it's so, so amazingly helpful.
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3916
And, yeah, it's, like, so cool because all the answers that you share are, like, so meaningful and so, like, have a huge impact because of the scale you guys are at.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3922
So thank you so much for your time.
25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3954
Absolutely.
25:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3962
Great to meet, meet you guys.
25:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3963
And, um, Aaron, if you want to follow up, I could.
25:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3969
I could see if Dave could do the demo, and then if there's any.
25:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3980
Any other thoughts or questions or things like that,
26:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-3994
let me know.
26:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4003
Cool.
26:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4006
Yeah, I'll reach out to Gabrielle then.
26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4007
Yeah, that would be great.
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4014
Okay, awesome.
26:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4019
Have a great rest of your day.
26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4021
Thanks.
26:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4028
I see you.
26:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4029
Bye.
26:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4032
Bye.
26:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/19#word-4033

-----

Episode: Giacomo Miceli TAB 2 (openai realtime)
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18

Before I started elaborating, can you say briefly if this, like those pain points are exclusively for people using a combination of LLMs and text-to-speech, speech-to-text as a pipeline?
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-0
Or if you've recorded those top pains also from people that use a speech-to-speech directly?
0:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-29
That's a real question.
0:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-44
Yeah,
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-48
I think everyone that we've spoken to has done speech to text, text to speech.
0:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-49
Yeah.
0:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-64
Yeah.
0:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-65
Well, I'll tell you my opinion, but remember that we are trying to pull this off with real time, with OpenAI real time.
0:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-66
And if it's not open air real time, we would steer towards Gemini real time.
0:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-89
I forgot how it's called.
1:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-104
Or one of the competitors, basically models that take an input audio directly and output speech without intermediation, without having to go through a pipeline.
1:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-109
Why?
1:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-134
Why we're doing that?
1:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-135
Because there is important metadata that gets discarded, emotional metadata.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-139
The way you're uttering certain phrases is important for what we do because we're dealing with emotional material.
1:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-149
I mean, it's not like we're doing psychotherapy or anything, but we're analyzing literature, we're talking about feelings, and people will ask questions about a certain novel and the way the question is asked carries metadata.
1:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-167
And this metadata is destroyed.
1:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-203
If you.
1:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-208
Pass through a large language model only the words in letters and you throw away the way that they have been pronounced.
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-210
So transcription for us is not as important because
2:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-232
most of the time the model understands what we're talking about.
2:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-241
Your second point, it's hard to reliably know how well conversations are doing and what difference your changes make.
2:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-252
That's
2:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-271
their problem.
2:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-272
They haven't set up their evolves correctly.
2:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-274
I think.
2:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-281
That is a startup idea by itself.
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-283
Like just helping
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-290
companies that are working with AI, setting their evals, evals, whatever you want to pronounce it,
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-293
is crucial.
2:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-309
And not everyone is capable of doing it.
2:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-311
Not everyone is focused enough on that.
2:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-319
So.
2:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-326
I understand that the pain point exists.
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-327
But, you know, I think solutions for that exist that are pretty clear.
3:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-334
If your goal is clear.
3:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-347
Onboarding, I mean, you mean onboarding with your specific platform or do you mean onboarding with working with models?
3:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-352
Yes.
3:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-371
I should elaborate that.
3:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-372
Onboarding new customers.
3:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-376
So a lot of people who have had like when
3:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-379
new joins, I think, especially if it's like B2B use cases.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-389
So, yeah, where, like, they are like, you know,
3:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-400
there's often lots of, like, Integrations, which I guess doesn't really apply here, but maybe there's an analogous one of, like, getting users set up and knowing how to use the platform and stuff like that.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-409
Yeah, that makes sense.
4:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-445
Well, I.
4:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-449
I cannot.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-451
I cannot say specifically because I haven't been onboarded, so I cannot give you, you know, specific.
4:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-453
I guess I can.
4:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-470
More for your platform.
4:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-474
So, like, if you.
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-478
If there were challenges around, like, getting your users to, like, get on board.
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-482
Successfully, like, oh, man, we wish we were already there.
4:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-496
We haven't launched.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-506
I think if we're lucky, we're gonna.
4:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-509
We're gonna launch in.
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-516
In.
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-520
In three to four weeks.
4:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-521
That's my estimate.
4:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-526
Nice.
4:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-529
And the onboarding, ours, it's
4:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-530
B2C.
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-535
So we're dealing with random people that have absolutely no idea of how AI works.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-536
The only thing that they need to be able to do is click on the big fat button that says talk.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-551
And so we are we're confident that they will be able to do that.
4:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-572
What is less clear is how flexibly will they use the tools that we.
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-586
Give.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-600
We make available to them.
5:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-601
Your pain point number four is the reason why we went for what I keep on calling speech to speech, but it's not really a solidified name, but you know what I mean, like those models that just take input speech.
5:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-606
Yeah.
5:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-647
So that's the turn taking, you know, less than ideal behavior and the latency is what brought us to, to this solution.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-648
And,
5:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-670
you know, like open AI two weeks ago released the official version of their real time API, so it's no longer beta.
5:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-671
It works better, it works.
5:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-693
Yeah, it seems indeed smarter and I haven't tested this yet, but it seems like it contains a
5:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-698
voice activity detection and turn taking mechanism that is semantically active, meaning it's not just dumbly listening a certain amount of seconds, it also checks on whether you're probably done with your sentence
6:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-716
given what you just said.
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-749
So
6:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-754
I think that should resolve a lot of those problems by offloading them to the model.
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-755
But again, I haven't tested that yet, so I don't know if that is really, you know, panacea.
6:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-771
I don't know if it really resolves all those problems.
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-789
Yeah.
6:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-799
But yeah,
6:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-800
We're going ahead with that one.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-802
And if you recall during our last call, I was describing to you how we wanted to use PipeCAD flows, which is the plugin of the PipeCAD framework.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-808
And the reason we wanted to do that was because there's like different conversation modes and we want
7:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-836
our backend to switch dynamically between those conversation flows.
7:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-854
That was a month and a half ago.
7:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-863
Then shortly after, we discovered that we couldn't because it is not compatible.
7:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-871
Because PipeCAD flows is still, as of today, not compatible with real-time models.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-884
Why is it not compatible?
7:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-897
Basically what they do, what PipeCAD flows solve is the problem of
7:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-902
adopting the context and adopting the tools that the model gets an input dynamically as you progress through the conversation.
7:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-914
That is crucial to us because suppose that we have 50 tools, we can just dump 50 tools to the model and say, hey, figure out which one is best because it just won't work.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-934
Models are still not that smart and arguably There's just too much noise in passing dozens, if not hundreds of tools.
8:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-969
This would have been our solution, PocketFlow.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-990
The good news is that as of, I think, two weeks ago, this new real-time API that was officially published by OpenAI, should have in their own API the possibility to operate changes on the system prompt and other variables, including the tools, in real time.
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-997
As the conversation progresses without having to turn it off and on again, which obviously is
8:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1043
not ideal.
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1059
Long story short, this is my biggest pain point right now.
9:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1061
How do I
9:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1072
solve this without having to backtrack on the
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1075
speech to text, LLM, text to speech, bandwagon,
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1083
as we could have done a long time ago.
9:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1091
I prefer to remain with the current pipeline because We just love how snappy and thoughtful the responses are and how they take into account the context of the voice and the way things are pronounced.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1100
We love the way the voice also adapts to particular vernaculars.
9:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1136
If you speak with a certain accent and you can ask the voice to speak with that accent or you switch language between the conversation, even the middle of the conversation and the model does the same.
9:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1147
All of that stuff.
9:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1184
Very niche.
9:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1188
I agree with you that it's probably not our core market, but it's so cool.
9:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1190
It's a fun part.
10:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1205
Magic.
10:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1209
Yeah.
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1210
It does feel like magic.
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1211
Yeah.
10:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1216
Okay, so this is the biggest problem for us.
10:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1217
Yeah.
10:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1226
Yeah.
10:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1227
And it feels like it's just a matter of time until OpenAI solves this.
10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1228
Do you think so?
10:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1242
I'm not sure that they already solved it.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1246
I think they might have solved it for sure.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1254
PipeCut has not solved it.
10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1263
And it's one thing that I check basically every morning with my morning coffee.
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1268
I'm sipping coffee and seeing if there are any updates on GitHub.
10:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1282
And that hasn't happened yet.
10:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1294
And so, short of building my solution, at a lower level, which is a big distraction.
10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1299
It seems like we're gonna launch our product with a reduced set of tools than the one that we wanted to originally launch.
10:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1315
So specifically, we wanted to have skip ahead, go backwards, return to the beginning of the chapter, stop playback, resume playback, all this kind of stuff.
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1338
Those are all different commands.
11:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1364
Different tools in our, in our.
11:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1369
You.
11:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1375
Know, at our disposal.
11:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1376
And then there are, you know, like tools that are more semantic.
11:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1380
For instance, go back to the part when he kills the woman, you know, just like a random thing.
11:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1392
Like maybe you forgot exactly what happened.
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1411
And in a book, in a physical book, it would be obvious.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1418
They just like go back a couple of pages.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1430
You read the scene and then you get back because maybe you lost something.
11:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1439
Doing that with audiobooks is so much more awkward, but not anymore in theory.
11:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1453
In theory, this problem is solvable and perhaps already solved by us.
11:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1467
But
12:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1479
that selection of the right tool when you have dozens of tools is what is challenging us.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1480
Right now because we have too many.
12:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1497
So we have to restrict the amount of features that we will launch with in hope that future generations, future versions of the frameworks we're using will support a more intelligent way of partitioning
12:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1504
the
12:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1538
context.
12:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1539
Could you have looked at having like a secondary
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1540
model that just has those, that isn't a conversation that's just like listening.
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1549
And then when you say, like, skip ahead, it just, like, can skip ahead.
12:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1562
And,
12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1576
for instance,
12:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1577
you mean, like, something that, like a filter that, that, that is triggered before we pass it to the,
12:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1579
to the other model, to the general purpose model.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1598
If you had the conversational, but then you're also tracking the audio, and then you were feeding the audio into another model that was just listening to see if it needs to do anything, and then it was skip ahead or something, then it could skip ahead and then somehow have in the prompt that if the user asks to skip ahead, there is another model that will handle that for you, and you can assume it happens or something.
13:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1607
I think it could be an interesting approach, but I would have to think a little bit more about it.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1687
But I think it might just be kicking the can down the road because then the original model still doesn't know that that has happened.
13:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1707
Yeah.
13:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1732
So unless you have, well, I guess that the other model could have the privilege of, you know, turning off the entire conversation.
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1733
But it sounds potentially over engineered.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1756
Yeah, short answer is we haven't.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1762
Experimented.
14:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1768
That, although I know that it is possible to use the same audio and do other things with it because we're doing that.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1769
We're saving the audio, reprocessing it, analyzing it, et cetera, et cetera.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1792
So it would theoretically be very feasible, but maybe, yeah, no, yeah, we prefer to stick to the thing.
14:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1804
Yeah.
14:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1823
Yeah.
14:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1824
Yeah.
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1825
Is there anything else?
14:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1826
Like, obviously this is number one.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1830
Is there a number two for you that's like really jumping up?
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1836
Because I know we haven't really, the ones that we had didn't really hit your problem, your pains.
14:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1848
Specifically about audio models.
14:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1866
Well, just like, sorry, if you say like just building, like we've got this list here for you.
15:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1870
The big pain is like, you know, your number one is like going to be like the tools with real-time voice, right?
15:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1888
I guess.
15:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1910
Yeah.
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1912
And then, yeah.
15:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1913
What would you say is your number two?
15:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1916
Number two, I think it's,
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1924
Well, it's dealing with,
15:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1929
for instance, low bandwidth solutions
15:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1933
or noisy environments in which the model erroneously thinks that it has detected a certain utterance.
15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1938
And so it starts responding to you to an imaginary question, whereas you haven't even started.
15:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1954
If you're asking your question, maybe you just press the button and then after two seconds, perhaps while you're starting to talk, which is even more annoying, you.
15:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1970
Get an answer.
16:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-1998
About an hallucinated question.
16:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2001
So.
16:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2005
There might be solutions that are heavy handed.
16:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2006
Like just turn on the model only
16:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2014
after a few seconds and that would probably already be better and then pass cached audio to it.
16:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2021
But yeah, it's a pinpoint and we're still living with it.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2039
Yeah, that's definitely one that I think a lot of The models have not been trained on low quality audio.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2050
Yeah, low quality and low bandwidth, it's just another one.
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2070
We imagined a lot of our customers will be using their mobile phones, they're on the go, maybe they're driving.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2080
There's a lot of background noise and connection can be less than ideal.
17:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2100
So that's
17:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2113
again, this is probably more something that can be resolved upstream in the sense
17:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2115
that if the model has in the training data also worse scenario, maybe it can learn how to deal with those situations.
17:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2129
And I think that the smartest thing that a model could do in that situation is just say please can you repeat because I didn't understand everything you said.
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2151
So like having threshold of confidence is would be a nice one but it's not among the parameters you can set any time.
17:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2180
Yeah, yeah, true.
17:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2203
That would be, I guess that's like some of the trade-off on the control versus like the quality of the power of the real time ones.
17:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2206
Yeah.
18:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2232
It's very exciting.
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2233
I feel like it's definitely going that way.
18:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2236
It just makes it, I guess it's just so much harder to insert stuff into the feels like more of a, it's like more of a black box, I guess.
18:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2244
Oh man, join the club, the paint club of black boxes.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2274
Everything has become a black box with AI and its current you know, phase, everything is just a big lump of parameters, billions and billions of parameters.
18:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2285
And that's weird.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2312
It's just like no one really knows.
18:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2315
Yeah.
18:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2322
So are you guys looking into like open ways models and like how to integrate them or you're not interested in that stuff?
18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2323
I personally, like, very interested in, like, I kind of wanted to, like, try and train my own, like, crappy model.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2346
I started to just look at doing that and, like, I just for fun and understand how it works because it's, like, so weird.
19:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2367
And also it feels like people got quite far.
19:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2391
Like, quite, I don't know, like, about 11 Labs got, like, they launched the first version, like, over a weekend or something, which sounds insane.
19:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2400
So it feels like you can get quite far with not that much data.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2425
And then running the models, I think we would like to at some point, but
19:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2439
then you get into either you run it on another provider and then it's like kind of same thing, or you then have to manage and be responsible for all of the uptime and stuff.
19:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2454
Which is like challenging for a small team.
19:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2489
Yeah.
19:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2497
And once again, focus, right?
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2498
That's the most important thing.
19:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2503
And like just understanding what's the most important thing for you.
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2508
Yeah.
20:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2519
I mean, I think that it could be interesting to do like a really low quality audio model, but like, I don't know if that would actually be better in most cases.
20:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2520
I don't know.
20:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2552
Yeah, well, you know, like something that already would be great for us would be just a way to clone a voice.
20:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2555
Tell me what we have in mind.
20:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2577
Like right now we're having an entire book being synthesized by a machine and instead we would like to have a human actor that does the reading because the reading is done once and listened by, you know, thousands, tens of thousands of times by different people.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2584
And, and instead, if you have, you know, like a, I want to say a world class actor, like somebody who's really, really great at how you book reading experience is much heightened.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2631
But then you would want that same actor to basically sell you their voice and, and then you would
21:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2664
use that very same voice to train or fine tune a model that would then give the answer that the final user is asking.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2683
You answer them with the same voice, so there is no jarring change of voice.
21:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2707
Basically what we're doing right now, but with any arbitrary voice and making sure that we can deliver higher quality for the reading.
21:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2722
So that's why it's important for us.
21:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2745
That's why we're looking into.
21:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2752
Well, I'm.
21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2757
Not saying doing it today, but I would reckon that in a couple of years it should be feasible also for smaller companies.
21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2759
I'll be surprised if it isn't.
21:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2782
Yeah, I mean, have you seen, I guess you've seen like 11 labs?
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2788
Have the custom voices.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2801
I've cloned mine and it was quite good.
22:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2805
But I guess you need to connect it in with the OpenAI real time.
22:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2813
And I don't know if you'd be able to, would you?
22:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2827
I think you would be able to.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2838
But it's always continuing that obsession of ours with speech-to-speech models.
22:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2845
One of those type of models that just, you know, does it all and has a specific voice.
22:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2856
And so, you know, takes better care.
22:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2874
Of.
22:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2881
You know, turn detection, etc.
22:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2882
Etc.
22:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2887
And doesn't have as much delay in giving you an answer, but also you can code it with whatever layer of voice you want at the very end.
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2888
And that would be super cool.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2916
That doesn't exist.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2922
And again, I'd be surprised if we don't have the tools to do that in a couple of years down the road.
23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2925
But,
23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2947
yeah, I was just interested if you guys were looking that direction at all.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2948
We haven't, but it's very interesting.
23:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2962
And I kind of want to look into that a little bit.
23:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2968
Like, I need.
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2980
I don't.
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2983
To be honest, like, I've, have, like, quite limited understanding of the.
23:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2985
Real time voice so far compared to the speech to text, text to speech just because it's what we've been doing a lot more of.
23:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-2997
And my main experience has been just as a consumer with like open AI stuff, which I really like.
23:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3022
Yeah.
23:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3041
I'm also a fan of open AI school.
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3042
I mean, I think Anthropic was very close and, you know, Google also was very close and having excellent competitors.
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3050
But then, you know, GPT-5.
23:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3070
I mean, it got a lot of bad press, but honestly, I think it just blows everything out of the water in terms of smart.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3075
I agree.
24:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3100
It's so good.
24:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3102
Yeah, it's just incredible.
24:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3105
Yeah.
24:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3109
Guys, gotta go and pick up the one kid.
24:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3110
Thank you.
24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3119
Yeah, let's do this again sometime in the future if you guys want.
24:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3121
I would like to know what you guys are building and in.
24:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3134
You know, keeping in touch.
24:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3146
Amazing.
24:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3151
Thank you so much, gentlemen.
24:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3152
You're welcome.
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3157
Look next time.
24:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3159
Bye bye.
24:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3162
See you later.
24:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3164
Have a good day.
24:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/18#word-3167

-----

Episode: Anthony Rego TAB 2
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17

Yeah, so I basically just wanted to like, we're starting to just still work in progress, but we're starting to like try to start to think about like what the top priorities from people that we've spoken to.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-0
I think we have definitely taken into account what the conversation that you and I had last time that was very clear, like what your top like pain is around transcription.
0:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-38
Switch the text.
0:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-69
And so I'm just going to show this one sec.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-72
Okay.
0:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-82
Can you see my screen?
0:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-83
Yeah.
0:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-88
Okay.
0:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-89
Cool.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-90
So.
0:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-91
I basically just wanted to get your reaction to these and just see if it fares with you.
0:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-92
And then we could start to also just put down the biggest pains that you have,
0:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-110
if that's okay.
1:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-126
I mean, I can even add to the top one there already, especially on transcription.
1:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-129
There's more nuance to it.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-144
I think it's
1:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-149
what's not on there right now is
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-152
transcription of low quality audio.
1:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-159
So especially like telephony, the 8,000 Hertz
1:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-164
Mula crappy audio quality that comes in over the phone.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-171
That has been our huge problem right there.
1:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-181
Because models are typically trained on 16,000 or 24,000 Hertz.
1:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-189
And it's, it's, it's, they just do not do a good job of, of understanding, that kind of low quality audio.
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-199
Uh, we've even considered like doing our own like fine tuning, on all over a lower level quality.
1:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-220
Um, but it's, it still has not been,
2:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-238
has not been great, although we have found kind of a way around this.
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-246
Uh, and actually some customers prefer it now.
2:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-260
Uh, we've been using, since we're like, Our app is currently like multimodal.
2:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-268
So like it's, you can talk to it over phone, WhatsApp, texts, and it's all, you're all talking to the same agent.
2:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-281
And what we started doing is people actually liked doing WhatsApp voice memos.
2:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-303
And that quality is great because it's coming straight from their phone and it's going over WhatsApp and that's like high quality.
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-316
So like the transcription is perfect now.
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-338
But, you know, anyone who's relying on phone calls, forget about it.
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-345
Interesting.
2:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-357
Yeah, customers are loving the WhatsApp voice memos.
2:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-358
They find it actually easier than having a phone call.
3:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-366
Really?
3:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-376
Because then they can just read the response when it comes in.
3:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-377
And.
3:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-389
A lot of our customers, they don't really have even time for a call sometimes.
3:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-390
They're kind of multitasking so much that they just need to quickly pop off, like, all right, my agent just sent something and now I gotta respond real quick, then I gotta handle something else in the real world real quick.
3:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-405
So that's actually been amazing for us because
3:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-446
the low quality voice problem has been a real thorn in our side, clearly, as it was
3:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-454
my first pain point.
3:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-471
Okay, that's super, super interesting.
3:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-475
But by the way, do people, because someone else told me about that they were going to start using WhatsApp as well.
3:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-480
Do you not, like, because I know right here everyone uses WhatsApp, I use WhatsApp.
3:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-502
Yeah.
4:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-517
But my friends in the States, like, typically nobody uses it.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-518
Yeah.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-529
So this pretty much only applies to our customers in, you know, EU or UK.
4:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-530
So, unfortunately, US.
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-545
Yeah.
4:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-548
Yeah.
4:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-549
And the only reason I have WhatsApp is because I just know so many people over there that like basically bullied me into getting WhatsApp.
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-550
Yeah.
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-575
Deliverer.
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-576
Exactly.
4:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-577
Yeah.
4:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-578
Okay.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-579
Very helpful.
4:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-580
Okay.
4:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-582
And then so how do you feel about the kind of like it's hard to reliably know how well conversations are going, what changes, what differences should chapters make?
4:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-583
Yeah, we actually started, I had one of my engineers actually working on it this month because we've been noticing this a lot with some customers where they're like, hey, our customers want to know when a conversation went poorly.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-612
They want to know
5:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-652
they want to be floated up to them so they can intervene.
5:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-656
Um, so we haven't, ruled it out just yet.
5:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-668
Like we're real, like literally he merged it in today.
5:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-677
So we have not seen, what the, I mean, I'm a little, skeptical that LLMs can positively identify when a conversation has gone badly.
5:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-687
Or actually, you know what?
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-711
I'm more worried about false, false positives on that.
5:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-716
We'll see.
5:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-725
Uh, I, I trust my employee on this one.
5:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-727
But I have just doubts on the ability to determine that.
5:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-736
I feel like a conversation will mostly go 100% correct, but then there was maybe one mess up and it's going to consider the whole conversation messed up.
5:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-747
I've worked with LLMs enough to know that that's 10s what would it do.
5:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-775
I'm not sure that's what you meant.
6:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-789
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-796
Like if it was listening to our call, it'd be like, oh, this, you know, Jack said something and then, yeah, yeah.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-799
And it just like misinterprets it or reads too much into something.
6:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-821
Interesting.
6:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-833
Like to kind of, what's the word?
6:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-834
Like human, some humans are like us as well, right?
6:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-841
Like overthinkers or something.
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-851
Yeah, yeah.
6:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-855
So we're trying to focus mostly on like, hey, did the conversation resolve?
6:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-857
Like in the end?
6:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-870
Did they get what they needed to go?
6:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-874
And even though if there was some tribulation along the way, but maybe it could have like varying degrees of like, all right, this conversation went sort of okay.
6:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-882
Yeah.
6:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-911
Like it's definitely been enough of a problem because call quality has been not that great that customers are starting to complain about this and they want to know when something's gone wrong.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-912
Yeah.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-945
So I mean, that alone is an indicator that Voice agents are not quite there yet.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-946
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-962
Although there's sometimes like, it also depends.
7:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-965
Sometimes it's a problem of transcription, but sometimes it's also like the AI just has no idea based on it was like one instance was
7:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-972
oh yeah, like a customer called in and asked something that the AI had no way of knowing.
7:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-997
It was almost like a current thing like oh, hey, it's raining today.
7:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1015
Is the site open?
7:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1028
And in the AI was just like,
7:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1032
well, I don't really know.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1039
And then it fortunately made something up and that's like, oh no.
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1044
Yeah, that's not cool.
7:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1056
So there's these hallucinations that can happen in there as well.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1060
And again, that's something that picking up if this conversation went right or wrong.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1071
Wrong, it's kind of hard to tell because it sounded like it was confidently, I mean, it was confidently incorrect.
8:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1085
So
8:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1105
do you have like, you know, I was thinking the other day this is just like massive aside, but like, like how we have like century when like, we hit like, you know, I don't know, there's just some sort of permissions error or something like API key expires.
8:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1106
We kind of learn immediately like shit, like we need to fix this.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1155
Something's messed up.
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1168
Yeah.
8:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1171
That's actually a really good idea to create like custom alerts for that.
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1172
Like, we have like something similar for that, for a couple of things.
8:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1185
Like, if somebody, if like a, a number gets a lot of like dead calls, like people calling in and just saying nothing, we have alerts for that right now.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1198
But this is actually a good idea to like have alerts for like poor conversations happening.
8:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1228
Yeah, I guess it's like what you said, like that balance of like, not, if you have too many false positives, it's just like, You're never going to even check the stream notifications, but you don't want to miss the actual ones where it's told someone, oh yeah, it's open, drive over three hours.
8:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1244
Terrible.
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1298
Exactly.
9:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1299
Okay, super interesting.
9:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1300
And this was kind of also,
9:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1303
how do you feel about number three, turn-taking, break, conversational flow?
9:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1309
I would say it's still a problem for sure, but I think definitely not as much as the other ones.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1320
I think what we started doing is just allowing more time for the agent to pause and think about something so it has more time to get the correct transcription and really know when the person stops speaking.
9:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1340
And the one thing that we use for that is just having a little waiting noise.
9:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1378
Like, it's an eye thinking noise.
9:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1394
We're just like a,
9:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1400
you know,
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1404
something like that.
10:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1406
And that, that go, that goes hard, you know, that, that people, people know to wait for that.
10:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1409
So good.
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1427
So good.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1429
It's that classic that, you know, that whole, like, elevator thing where they, like, people complain, you know, that story is, like, classic design thing of, like, slow elevators.
10:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1431
Put in mirrors and people stop complaining.
10:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1460
Yeah.
10:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1467
Yeah, that's great.
10:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1468
One side thing, just that like, I haven't got this on there, but like some people I hadn't mentioned, do you have any challenges around onboarding?
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1471
Tons, I would say.
10:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1497
We ended up like hand holding a lot of our customers because of this.
10:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1501
Or like they don't even want to try it unless, like they don't even want to demo it unless we completely set it up for them.
10:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1515
And then we give them a number and then they like, we'll try it out.
10:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1541
And then that works really well.
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1556
But getting them to, we have not had many
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1562
people coming in from the cold and setting them up themselves and getting running up and running, like basically zero at this point.
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1571
Okay.
11:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1594
So you're spending a lot of time on boarding.
11:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1595
Yeah.
11:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1604
A lot, a lot of time on boarding, unfortunately.
11:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1605
And, and.
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1614
I think it's been better because I think we would rather handhold them and make sure that the agent is set up correctly than have them try to do it themselves and then have a poor experience and then just bounce.
11:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1616
Yeah, but obviously that's not ideal.
11:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1657
Obviously we would love it to create our own.
11:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1663
We've made so many adjustments to our onboarding process at this point where we even try to make it more automated, have AI, you just give them a basic, like you give them your, if you have like a, let's say you're a restaurant, you just give them your, your website and then we'll do all the research in the back and like the AI will do the research in the background and try to set up the agent for you as like some first pass and then you can give feedback.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1672
But even they don't want to do that.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1764
You know, it's, I don't know if people are just like already getting too used to AI companies and they're like, hey, this all should just be done for me.
12:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1772
Yeah.
12:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1802
Yeah.
12:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1803
But it's been tough.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1804
Been tough.
12:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1808
Interesting.
12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1810
Yeah.
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1811
This is how do you think that if you're slotting that into like pains, like do you think onboarding makes it into top three or is it like not in top three?
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1812
You know what?
12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1844
I would say that that makes it to top three.
12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1847
I would replace the taking turns at this point and say like the onboarding is up there.
12:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1857
But below, not as big of a problem as the other two.
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1874
Yeah, I would say not as much.
12:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1886
Just mostly because we're still, since we're trying to mostly target more high valuable customers anyway, it's not that big a deal.
12:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1893
We're not too worried about that as much.
12:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1915
But I mean, it's something we would love to have automated if we want to scale.
13:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1923
Yeah, I have.
13:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1939
I mean, the others that you can see how it might be like, technology could maybe unlock it, but it's like, that one feels like it'll be tough, but I don't know.
13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1942
Do you think there's like technology that could sort of make onboarding customers easier?
13:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1974
Or do you think it's just like a human challenge?
13:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1988
Yeah.
13:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1998
I mean, theoretically, you would think AI can unlock this somehow, but it would take so much effort to do so.
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-1999
It would almost be like a whole new company we need to spin up just to do this.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2020
Yeah.
13:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2038
Well, we're trying to solve problems in this space.
13:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2039
Yeah.
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2048
I don't know.
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2049
It's come up a couple of times now.
13:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2052
I mean, it's a big one.
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2060
Yeah.
13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2066
I mean, if you're seeing a lot of other people having this issue, it's definitely something to it.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2067
And it also feel good to know that we're not the only ones that are having this onboarding issue.
14:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2085
Yeah.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2104
Some people say integrations, spending a lot of time on integrations.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2105
Yeah.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2116
Stuff like that.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2117
Yeah.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2120
So, well, that's definitely one thing everybody wants.
14:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2121
It's like if you're trying to target real estate, then it's like, well, I have this real estate software.
14:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2129
Can you integrate with that?
14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2148
Oh, great.
14:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2153
It's like, does it have an API?
14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2155
And then you receive a PDF.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2162
Yeah.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2168
Well, maybe everyone will just have NCP servers running at some point and we can just all talk to each other and integration should be easier, but it's probably gonna be a ways for that.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2169
I hope so.
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2204
Yeah, I don't know.
14:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2207
We'll see, I guess.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2211
Okay.
14:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2215
Amazing.
14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2216
That's super helpful.
14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2217
So we're probably only imagine I have time to get to gains, but.
14:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2220
Kind.
15:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2233
Of is like the sort of like the, you know, the.
15:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2234
Result of that problem.
15:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2245
Like, if you had, you know, if you, if you were to have solved that, what you would get out of it, basically.
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2249
So,
15:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2272
like, perfect transcript.
15:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2273
Like, you know, if you're imagining, like, something, the wave in the magic wand, like, that you would get out of it, like, so we've got here, like, perfect, trans, perfect, quote, unquote, transcription, maybe say, like, on low quality audio or something.
15:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2276
Conversations feel instant and natural.
15:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2319
I feel like maybe I can actually just like just put the conversations feel natural.
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2324
Yeah.
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2339
And know how every conversation is doing, I guess.
15:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2340
Being alerted.
15:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2349
Being alerted.
15:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2351
Yeah.
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2353
And I guess if we add another one, like customers can onboard themselves.
16:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2354
Yeah.
16:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2367
Self serve.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2368
It's the dream.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2370
Yeah.
16:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2373
You know, I think a big problem with the onboarding process is that because this is such a new kind of technology, people are just almost scared.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2374
To try to onboard themselves because they're worried about, they don't know what the capabilities of are.
16:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2401
I think they're more worried about messing it up and not being correct, that they just kind of throw their hands up and rather just have somebody help them.
16:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2418
Which again, AI should theoretically help.
16:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2447
Yeah.
16:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2453
I think I'm also, you probably see this a lot in this space is, you know, AI companies tend to think AI is the solution to everything.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2454
So it's like our only tool in the toolbox.
17:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2481
They're like, oh, I'll just throw AI at it.
17:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2490
You know, that'll fix it.
17:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2499
Yeah.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2504
It's not that simple.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2505
Yeah.
17:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2509
It is interesting.
17:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2510
I don't know.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2513
It's always like, yeah.
17:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2516
I don't know how, I don't know, like, yeah,
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2520
I just had a deal with like a broadband company today and like, you know, they still have humans and it doesn't feel like it feels like it's like a lot of it's like the negotiation and things like that.
17:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2529
And it's like, can you, I mean, you can get AI that does the negotiations.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2569
Can you get the AI to understand I don't know.
17:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2584
Like, is it.
17:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2594
It gets into, like, interesting.
17:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2597
I don't know.
17:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2602
And I guess that's a form of.
17:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2605
I don't know if that councils onboarding where they send me, like, I still prefer to onboard over the phone than
17:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2612
just like, I could have done it online, but I knew I'm gonna get a better deal on the phone.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2633
That's very true.
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2653
Oh.
18:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2656
I miss if that ever goes away.
18:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2657
If you're just getting the same raw deal as going online.
18:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2664
You're not talking to a human anymore, you know?
18:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2675
Yeah, I don't know.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2684
Yeah.
18:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2688
Okay.
18:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2689
And so, sorry, Anthony.
18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2690
So do you think that these would, like, is this how you would, if you were thinking of what you would like to just exist?
18:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2694
Is this natural order that you think?
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2719
Yeah, I think so.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2726
Okay.
18:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2730
Okay, cool.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2731
Super helpful.
18:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2733
Is there anything that isn't on there that should be on there?
18:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2735
Nothing I could think of right now.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2747
Okay, cool.
18:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2754
Thanks.
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2756
That's really helpful.
18:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2757
Yeah, so this is like, I've honestly found these last two ones like, I haven't I've been doing it as much, to be honest, verifying because it feels like these are the two main ones.
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2760
But.
19:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2795
Yeah.
19:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2796
Do any of these resonate or not resonate?
19:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2797
It's just too fancy.
19:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2805
Yeah.
19:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2809
Orchestrated and then calls.
19:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2810
Yeah, I think.
19:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2814
I don't know.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2817
Like what the.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2820
Yeah.
19:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2823
I don't know, transport network like of the, yeah.
19:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2824
No, I mean, like, just like the logistics of setting all that stuff.
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2833
Yeah, just like the managing all like the web sockets and everything and just all that sort of like sending the audio, receiving audio, like all that sort of stuff.
19:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2846
Which is the part I found the most fun while building stuff.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2876
But I like that kind of stuff.
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2888
Yeah.
19:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2895
It is fun.
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2896
It's fun.
20:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2899
That's what I'm doing right now, actually.
20:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2901
So, yeah.
20:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2908
I was just reading the second one, the instrument system with recordings, eval sets, latency scoring.
20:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2910
I mean, ideal.
20:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2926
Yeah.
20:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2929
I feel like we end up just kind of like, getting around that by being like, okay, like in the end product, is it, you know, actually, that's, that's, I guess that's not a good way to go about that, too.
20:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2930
Like, you know, determining after the call, if the call went poorly and then doing something about it, then, you know, it's more firefighting than being proactive.
20:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2971
Catching a jury, getting someone.
20:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-2998
Yeah.
20:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3003
Although we, we do have.
20:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3004
A lot.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3009
Of, and this may be more like, is each individual system like, hey, did our text of speech start being slower or our transcription started being slower and switching over to a different provider at the last second so that we know this.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3011
We actually do have that right now.
21:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3054
Yeah, we had to implement that because
21:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3061
certain services like Deepgram can be quite unreliable at times.
21:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3068
Their transcription quality is great, but their latency like, it'll.
21:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3078
They definitely hit, like, some limits at times, and, you know, it's sometimes faster to just switch back over to, like, 11 Labs' transcription or their Texas Beach, depending on, like, 11 Labs tends to be more consistent on their latency from what we've seen.
21:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3088
That's super cool.
21:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3133
That's really interesting.
21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3136
It's interesting that you managed to.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3139
That's great.
21:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3145
Yeah.
21:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3147
You measure just the response on the request basically and then change it once.
21:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3148
It hits a certain threshold over a certain amount of time.
21:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3162
That's super cool.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3173
I realize we're coming towards the end.
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3176
Oh, wow.
22:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3183
Oh, wow.
22:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3185
Yeah, that went fast.
22:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3187
Thank you.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3191
That was extremely helpful.
22:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3193
Yeah.
22:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3197
So we're going to have some other stuff to share hopefully next time if it's still okay.
22:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3198
Absolutely.
22:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3215
If there's anything that we can help with as well.
22:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3216
Please let us know.
22:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3226
I don't know if, like, we're gonna set up swag and stuff soon.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3230
There's.
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3243
There's just been tons of debate in the team around, like, water bottle choices and all this sort of stuff.
22:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3244
So I've kind of checked out of that, but, like, someone's debating it.
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3264
Oh, yeah, yeah.
22:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3277
You can spend so much of your.
22:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3280
Your time thinking about swag, you know?
22:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3287
Before you lose your mind.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3294
Yeah, exactly.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3299
But, yeah, Anthony, thank you so much.
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3301
I really appreciate it.
22:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3308
I know your time is very precious right now, so thank you so much.
22:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3312
And we're trying to make it worth your while.
22:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3326
Thank you very much.
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3335
No problem.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3339
It's a lot of fun.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3341
Thanks.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3346
See you later.
23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3347
All right.
23:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3350
Bye.
23:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/17#word-3352

-----

Episode: Ben from Achilles HR TAB 2
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16

So I was just gonna show you
13:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-0
some of the stuff that we've been seeing from people.
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-7
Hey, Aiden.
0:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-17
Hey.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-19
Nice to meet you, man.
0:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-20
Yeah, you as well.
0:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-25
Yeah.
0:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-29
So I was just gonna show you some of the stuff that we've been seeing, Ben, and just wanted to get your reaction and, like, kind of get towards, like, hopefully, like, some sort of ranking on, like, things that you.
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-30
See things basically.
0:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-71
I'll just share my screen and make more sense.
0:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-74
Cool.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-83
Yeah.
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-84
So we've got.
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-85
We've been starting to, like, write down some of these, like, pains and gains and just wanted to get, like, your sort of reaction to these.
0:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-88
Yeah.
0:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-114
Yeah, I would say that the biggest one is number one for sure.
0:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-115
And then we don't, are you talking about onboarding new customers in terms of like me onboarding new customers onto our product?
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-128
Yeah, sorry, I should have been clear on this.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-150
Yes, yes.
1:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-159
I don't think that's actually too difficult for us.
1:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-161
There's some like data stuff that It's a pain in the ass for us, but it doesn't have anything to do with voice.
1:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-170
I would say bigger things are.
1:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-193
Not.
1:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-199
Maybe this isn't really like a voice issue, but we need to be better about getting the model to kind of like go into a little bit more detail on interviews it's doing and think on its feet a little bit more.
1:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-200
That's not really voice stuff though.
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-242
It's just like we need to improve our prompts.
1:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-248
And.
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-257
You know, improve contacts and stuff like that.
1:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-258
But.
1:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-266
Context.
2:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-267
Context, sorry.
2:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-268
But yeah, those are probably
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-270
our two biggest ones.
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-275
So it's the logic of like the actual agent stuff.
2:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-279
Yeah, a bit.
2:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-289
That's not like, we're definitely not in a bad place on that right now, but it could be better.
2:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-292
I mean, the other big thing for us, which again, it's not really related to voice, is like,
2:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-311
you know, for our product, we have, you know, basically building an AI recruiter.
2:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-329
So we have people moving through a candidate flow and just managing like the context.
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-343
And, you know, when we have another touch point with the candidate, Are we asking a question that we've already asked or stuff like that?
2:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-358
Just getting all that stuff right is difficult, but again, that's not really a voice issue.
2:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-383
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-399
Are you asking questions you've already asked?
3:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-402
Yeah, that makes sense.
3:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-409
It's like the,
3:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-413
are you using any frameworks and stuff using like ASDK or whatever?
3:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-416
Right now we're not doing any of that, but we should be at some point.
3:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-428
Wow.
3:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-443
Yeah.
3:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-444
I don't know.
3:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-445
I feel like you hear different things from different people that like whether they're worth using and stuff.
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-448
Yeah.
3:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-466
Okay.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-467
That's cool.
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-468
So it's just that that's sort of like
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-470
design slash, I don't know.
3:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-478
I feel like that's the core of what you're, that feels like the core of your
3:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-483
differentiation and you doing that well is like the driver of the product, I guess.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-499
That's part of it, yeah.
3:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-514
There's a lot of other stuff as well, but that's definitely a big part.
3:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-519
Yeah.
3:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-533
Is there anything else that's kind of keeping you up at night at the moment?
3:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-534
Those are the big ones on the technical side, honestly.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-549
Yeah.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-559
Yeah.
4:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-560
Just like zooming in on the conversation doesn't feel natural.
4:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-561
Is there anything that's really painful there for you guys?
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-571
I think, yeah, mostly just turn taking.
4:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-581
Right now we have our silence
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-588
duration between turns set pretty long.
4:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-594
And so the conversations feel kind of like there's a high amount of latency.
4:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-600
The reason we have it set long is to avoid interruptions, like avoid the model.
4:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-614
Like in that exact scenario where I was thinking of what I was going to say, the model would interrupt basically to avoid that kind of thing.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-629
So just having like a more context driven approach to that where the model understands what's being said and we'll wait to talk.
4:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-656
Until it's obvious that, you know, it's the model's turned to talk.
5:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-679
I know there's some new stuff on this, like the Gramian release, a big new thing, which I've been meaning to get around trying, but.
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-691
Yeah.
5:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-716
Yeah.
5:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-717
Yeah.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-718
We just starting to implement that one of our engine.
5:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-719
You're talking about the flux model.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-729
Yeah.
5:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-735
Yeah, it seems really good.
5:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-736
It's like we're getting, I think, timed at like two seconds latency on turn taking and it feels like really like whole thing of like replies and it feels like really, really fast.
5:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-741
I don't know.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-774
That's great.
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-777
Our only problem is right now it's only in English, which is a problem for us, but I'm sure it'll be multilingual soon.
5:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-779
Yeah,
5:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-802
yeah,
5:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-803
yeah.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-804
I can, if it's helpful, not about using us or anything, but just so if you wanted, I can send the demo that our engineer did.
5:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-805
So you have an idea of what it's like in the real of someone implementing it.
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-831
That'd be great.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-847
Yeah.
6:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-850
Cool.
6:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-851
I'll send that.
6:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-852
That's mostly it.
6:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-855
I mean, really, like, it boils down to, I think, turn taking.
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-858
I mean, the voice is already, like, good in terms of.
6:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-870
How it sounds as a voice.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-881
It's really just like turn taking and content that we need to improve on, I would say.
6:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-887
Okay.
6:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-904
Okay.
6:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-905
Yeah.
6:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-906
Yeah.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-907
Makes sense.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-908
Okay, great.
6:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-910
This is super, super helpful.
7:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-912
And these are like the kind of gains from that.
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-917
Like, maybe this is very specific this one, to be honest, but I don't know if it.
7:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-927
Applies to you as well.
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-944
But we had something that came up for a lot of people was perfect transcription, low quality audio.
7:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-949
That's definitely somewhat of an issue for us.
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-967
It used to be a really big issue.
7:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-975
We kind of have a hack for that, which is if the model can't hear or
7:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-983
kind of gets in a bad state.
7:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-999
We basically just have the model say, hey, sorry, I can't hear you.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1006
Can you speak up?
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1019
Which is kind of a hack because, you know, it kind of will prompt the person to make, you know, people know how to make their phone quality, phone noise quality better, so they'll do that.
7:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1023
That tends to help.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1059
It's not really, like, great, but it.
7:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1063
You know, helps.
8:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1070
That is genius.
8:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1073
Gotta say, that's the first time I've heard someone doing that.
8:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1076
Yeah, it works pretty well.
8:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1087
Yeah, I do that with my friends all the time.
8:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1092
Genius.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1102
Yeah.
8:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1103
Have you tried, like, the noise, like, isolation stuff?
8:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1104
I know some people are doing that.
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1113
Like, messing with the audio.
8:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1120
Nah, we just take the audio that comes straight from Twilio and sends it to.
8:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1125
We send it to.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1140
Deep, yeah, I guess we're using DeepCram now.
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1144
So, yeah, I haven't really messed with any of that yet.
8:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1152
Maybe there's something you can do, but I don't know.
8:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1163
My kind of theory on that is like the iPhone's already doing so much to make the audio good and then some of the phone networks like.
8:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1173
I.
9:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1200
Am probably not going to do a better job at that than Twilio or Apple.
9:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1201
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1216
That's a good point.
9:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1219
But we have spoken to some people that said that they've got a lot of benefits from using like Crisp and AI acoustics.
9:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1223
But I can't actually remember if it was like over phone or if that was WebPonD.
9:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1246
Yeah, I think it makes a big difference.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1262
When things come in over the phone, it definitely changes a lot because, like, if you have just, like, a laptop, it depends on the laptop that it's coming from.
9:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1270
But there can be a lot of,
9:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1300
like, excess noise outside of the speech that comes in.
9:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1307
But with phones, they're already, like, so tuned to that.
9:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1317
That, like, when I listen to the twilio recordings, it's like, yeah, I mean, even if I, like, Like we did try stuff to,
9:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1327
we actually at one point tried using like FFmpeg to basically, we use like a combination of VAD and FFmpeg to basically like anytime that VAD was
9:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1351
basically saying there was no speech, we would like strip out the audio effectively and then send that and it didn't really account and cause a bunch of problems, too.
10:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1378
So.
10:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1408
Yeah, I don't know.
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1409
Maybe there's somewhere we get for that now, but I just don't see it as, like, a, like, good use of time at this moment.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1413
Yeah, it's not, not that big.
10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1438
So would you say it's more
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1444
reducing, from what you said, was it reducing latency between,
10:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1450
like,
10:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1460
Tons.
10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1461
Not necessarily reducing latency.
10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1462
It's more like just making sure the model, like having, you know, half a second latency is like totally fine.
10:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1466
It's more like, like if you, if we take, I mean, we intentionally set the latency to basically a second in most calls, but if you have it at half a second,
11:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1486
you're a lot more likely to get an-- like the model will interrupt the caller in a way that's not good.
11:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1518
And so it's really like,
11:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1539
how do you keep the latency at half a second and then reduce those interruptions?
11:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1544
Okay.
11:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1559
So reducing interruptions while keeping latency at half a second.
11:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1560
Yeah.
11:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1570
And is that so the gain would be reduce interruptions while
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1571
keeping?
11:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1582
Yeah, I mean, basically I think it's what Deepgram has done.
11:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1583
From what I read, it's like what they're doing where it's like you look at the actual text that's happening or, you know, the content of the audio and then you decide whether or not.
11:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1594
To.
11:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1629
Create, you know, to have the model start speaking.
12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1630
Because like even when we're talking right now, sometimes I talk immediately right after you talk less than half a second.
12:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1639
Sometimes I wait longer than half a second.
12:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1660
So for it to feel natural, it has to be, it can't be just like when there is silence, start talking after half a second.
12:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1668
Like there has to be, it has to be contextually driven.
12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1693
So it's like, ah, context appropriate.
12:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1704
Contextual.
12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1710
Yeah.
12:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1711
Okay.
12:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1712
Yeah, that makes sense.
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1713
And I guess this perfect transcription is like not that high
12:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1717
for you.
12:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1728
Yeah, we don't really, I mean.
12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1730
I.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1736
Mean, frankly, I've looked at the transcriptions that come in on the call
12:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1737
and they're definitely not perfect when the call is actually happening.
13:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1750
But the model can basically get the gist of what's happening almost always.
13:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1761
It's totally fine that the transcription isn't 100% perfect.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1774
Then post-processing, we use a different transcription that is Honestly pretty good.
13:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1783
Like every time I see a weird transcription and I listen to the call.
13:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1795
I'm like.
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1809
You know, it's pretty good.
13:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1811
I don't think there's really anything we could do there.
13:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1816
Like even I am kind of misunderstanding what that person's saying or like, I don't really, you know, so totally.
13:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1826
Yeah.
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1846
Okay.
13:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1847
Yeah, totally makes sense.
13:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1848
Yeah.
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1852
So,
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1853
This is like
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1854
kind of the jobs to be done.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1857
And do you think there's any
13:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1864
well, I guess this is like
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1870
this is kind of like for
14:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1876
yeah, I should struggle on the best place to say this, but like this is like what we're trying to think about, like what problem we should work on the job that we should try to solve essentially.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1882
Yeah.
14:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1920
Do you have a view on like what
14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1921
should be worked on as like, like you would want someone to be working on?
14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1929
I mean,
14:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1944
Yeah, yeah, I mean in general like well right now we use LiveKit which does a lot of the you know actual transport like we don't use the we never really handle the audio ourselves obviously
14:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1946
or yeah, not really.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1982
But.
15:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1986
I don't know.
15:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1987
I mean, just the biggest thing is like, yeah, we've had to spend a ton of time tuning settings and putting in all this stuff where it's like, for example, we have
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-1990
a bunch of code to make the conversation feel more natural in terms of adjusting values at different times in the conversation and all that kind of stuff based on.
15:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2022
Is.
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2052
It incoming or outgoing, all that kind of stuff?
15:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2053
Handling, yeah, it's tough because like.
15:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2062
Would.
15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2068
I like to not have to do that work?
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2069
Yes, but also
15:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2078
I want to somewhat be in control of what's happening there.
15:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2081
So
15:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2092
yeah, I don't know.
16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2093
It really just depends on like how good the solution, like if someone was like, hey, you can basically just provide an LLM node and numbers and like 12 number IDs or something and the conversation felt perfect every single time, then I'd feel comfortable giving away control on that.
16:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2097
But
16:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2147
yeah.
16:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2148
Does that make sense?
16:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2149
Yeah.
16:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2153
Yeah, I understand.
16:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2154
It's like you're kind of like, well, it would be great if I didn't have to like, configure and test all these options.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2157
But also it sounds like you feel like a lot of those were quite specific and
16:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2180
you want them a certain way for your customers that probably someone else would want differently.
16:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2196
Potentially, yeah.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2212
I don't know.
16:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2214
I mean, most phone calls are probably pretty similar.
16:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2217
And so,
16:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2226
You can probably get by with a somewhat generalized solution there.
17:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2228
But also we're in a pretty good spot now.
17:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2239
We're not perfect, but I listen to other calls that are, you'll see on Twitter like, oh, this is a good voice AI thing.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2248
And I'll listen to their call and I'll be like, We're better than that.
17:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2272
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2286
I'm not like, yeah, in dire- the first time we talked, I was in much more dire straights.
17:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2289
Now we're in a better spot.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2307
Yeah, yeah.
17:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2313
I don't know if I've spelt that as the band or the, that was actually spelled dire straights.
17:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2315
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
17:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2333
And by the way, just like, is there, have you seen any examples that were like, Unbelievably good.
17:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2338
Honestly, not really.
17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2356
I keep going onto people's websites and like, hello patient, the other day I tried and I was like, this is good, but it's basically just the same.
17:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2359
It's definitely not any better than what we're doing.
18:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2387
They're just using LiveKit under the hood and doing all the same tricks that we are.
18:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2396
Yeah.
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2412
And then like in that example, I tried it and I was like, well, this quality is like
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2413
maybe the same, maybe slightly worse than ours.
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2431
And I tried it on their website.
18:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2439
So it was going like just over the internet and through my super high quality MacBook microphone.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2446
So I was like over the phone, this seems like it'd be even worse.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2463
Yeah.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2477
So yeah.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2478
How do you feel about the ChatGPT voice one?
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2480
I haven't used it much.
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2489
Yeah, it's pretty good.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2494
It's good.
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2498
Yeah, I think it's good, but be curious what you think.
18:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2500
I mean, I feel like long term, all of this is heading towards there's just a speech in speech out model.
19:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2511
But
19:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2532
the problem right now with that is like, For example, with
19:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2533
the real-time API,
19:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2544
it's not going to work well for a business use case because you're going to want to be able to control it.
19:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2547
You're going to want to make your own voice and you can't do that with speech to speech right now.
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2569
I feel like the tool coding and stuff's harder as well.
19:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2589
Also that there's the timing stuff.
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2600
Yeah, I mean, great points and all that.
19:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2606
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2614
It's interesting.
19:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2617
Yeah.
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2619
Okay.
19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2620
And so that makes sense.
19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2621
Yeah.
19:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2626
This is really cool.
19:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2627
Yeah, I know.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2631
Sorry.
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2634
Do you have, like, can we actually just like play around with Achilles right now and see like, Just kind of curious like, because I should have done this before, but I don't know if you've got anything that we can speak to.
19:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2635
Just like, I can send you something after we are,
20:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2678
I just need to double check with my co-founders because we're kind of playing things a little tight to the chest right now.
20:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2688
Just because there's a lot of competition in the space and everything, but I can probably send you guys like send you a demo call Yeah, yeah, it'll be amazing.
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2711
Yeah, it's just purely for ourselves, like just want to see like what good looks like basically.
20:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2741
Yeah, yeah.
20:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2758
Yeah.
20:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2760
That'll be amazing.
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2761
I'm sure it's fine if I can just send you our like demo number
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2764
after this and you can just like call it in and call in on it and see how it sounds.
20:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2778
I think the prompts on the demo number are not up to date, but the content's not really exactly what we do now, but I keep it up to date with our whole voice pipeline.
20:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2798
So it sounds like the conversation will behave like our existing conversation basically.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2833
Yeah, it makes sense.
21:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2846
In terms of like the, well, I think this one, I don't know if it's like super useful, but do you think if there's anything that's like really changed recently that makes
21:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2850
sort of solving these problems more valuable?
21:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2882
I mean, I think there's just like just with the whole concept of voice, I mean, the canonical answer is like there's so many problems that can now be solved with software, but I don't think that anything has changed since we last talked really.
21:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2889
I haven't really experimented with like any new models in the last like couple months at all.
22:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2934
Been working on other stuff, but.
22:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2951
I.
22:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2957
Mean, there's like, I mean, how many people are employed doing phone calls that, you know, can read off of a script?
22:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2958
Like, there's just a ton of money to be made in 100% automating that.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2980
Yeah.
22:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2994
100%.
22:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2995
Yeah, this is amazing.
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-2996
Yeah.
22:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3000
Ben, those are the questions I wanted to ask you.
22:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3001
So,
22:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3011
Just is there anything else that we can help with you guys at the moment?
22:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3012
I'm just curious where you guys are at in terms of development.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3027
Yeah, so we have been really focusing on like we made the onboarding a lot simpler because obviously for us we want people trying it out so we can actually and like using it so that we can actually make it better.
22:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3039
So we've been we launched a CLI that's got us sort of get started in a minute.
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3081
It's just lots of quality of life stuff for tunnels and stuff because for us right now, I don't know if you have to do this with LifeKit, but probably do, I guess, if you're running it on their cloud.
23:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3098
You have to have a tunnel running locally and then update it in the LifeKit dashboard.
23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3138
We run on our own cloud, so we just,
23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3154
So from the agent process, we can just hit our own server basically.
23:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3163
Is that what you're talking about?
23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3176
We were talking about if you, well, I guess for us, because we're doing like we have the authentication and stuff, so
23:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3182
you give it kind of like an endpoint to hit locally in local development so that layer code sends you
23:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3204
the data to like an endpoint that you define.
24:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3224
So we have to basically put like localhost 3000 online so that it can be hit and that sort of stuff.
24:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3233
So it's like to test it out you have to do that.
24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3254
And then so we've got like a.
24:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3266
Oh, see you fancy to do it.
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3273
Yeah, just like an update in the dashboard and stuff.
24:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3280
Just like it's just me.
24:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3290
Our life easier, that sort of thing.
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3295
And so now we've got people actually using it and there's just like
24:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3302
so much stuff with trying to make it work well with AI SDK and all this kind of thing.
24:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3315
And just
24:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3334
lots of small things that, but we're trying to think about the bigger picture as well.
24:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3336
So we're not just getting bogged down in making
24:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3352
SDK changes and stuff, but actually thinking about what's going to be most useful, which is why it's extremely helpful to talk to you and we really appreciate it.
24:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3361
Yeah.
25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3390
Yeah, we're gonna hopefully have a Flux model integrated soon.
25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3391
And yeah, that's kind of mostly what we've been working on.
25:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3401
Cool.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3412
And by the way, I just pulled up your LinkedIn, I see you live in Victoria.
25:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3413
I've actually been there a bunch.
25:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3429
I'm from Seattle originally.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3435
Oh no way.
25:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3439
Yeah.
25:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3442
I worked for Kenmore Air so I would,
25:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3443
like in high school I had gas planes for them basically.
25:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3451
You've done a lot of seaplanes then?
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3462
Yeah.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3469
Yeah.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3470
Yeah.
25:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3471
Jack, you didn't get to do that when you came but
25:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3472
we've got to do that because it is fun.
25:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3483
Did you ever get tired of it though Ben?
25:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3492
I feel like if you do it.
25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3501
All the time it's It was pretty cool.
25:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3508
I mean, I wasn't flying every day.
25:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3516
I was just I was on the dock and I flew just occasionally.
25:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3523
So yeah, it was pretty fun.
26:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3536
Did you get to fly them yourself?
26:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3542
I have, I had a friend that was a family friend that was a pilot and she one time was just like, let me fly the plane with passengers in it, which was pretty wild, but.
26:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3549
That'S cool.
26:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3585
Not landing.
26:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3587
Yeah.
26:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3589
No, no, it is.
26:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3590
I don't know if they do it with Kenmore, but the Canadian one, Harbore,
26:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3594
they let you sit up front with the pilot.
26:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3608
Oh yeah, they do.
26:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3617
They do it Kenmore too.
26:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3621
Harbore is much more professional than we were.
26:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3626
We were pretty a little bit wild west of us.
26:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3634
Not in a dangerous way, but Harbore had their shit together a little bit more.
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3644
I've done it a few times.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3659
It's always kind of terrifying because you're like, this is really fun.
26:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3665
Then you're like, What if the pilot.
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3677
Fucking has a heart attack?
26:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3684
Like I'm literally sitting here.
26:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3689
So yeah, that's cool.
26:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3694
Where are you based now?
26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3698
I'm in New York.
26:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3703
Nice, okay.
26:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3707
Yeah.
26:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3709
I actually have a meeting right after this, so I gotta run, but thanks guys.
26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3710
Thanks, thanks.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3725
Have a good rest of your day.
27:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3727
Thanks, see you later.
27:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/16#word-3734

-----

Episode: Rhys Giles TAB call 1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15

Absolutely.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-0
Yeah.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1
Well, at least it's saying something.
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2
At least it's saying it's being recorded.
0:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-8
Yeah, exactly.
0:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-15
Well, I guess, like, everyone always uses, like, granola and stuff now, right?
0:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-17
And, yeah, we're gonna use that, too.
0:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-30
But,
0:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-37
yeah, well, that's actually, you know, granola was where the, the kind of the frustration also came from because there's all these really great tools, but it's just after the fact, you know, you've, you've already asked the questions and all of that.
0:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-38
But yeah, sorry anyway.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-81
No, no, no.
0:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-85
Yeah, so Reese, my first question is when you've been building with Voice AI.
0:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-88
If.
0:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-102
There was one thing that you could wave a magic wand at, what would it be?
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-103
Well, in general or specifically around
0:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-119
trying to use your product or just in general?
0:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-125
Just in general, don't worry about layer code.
0:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-134
We're just trying to understand where your real anything that you would wave for Magic Wand that basically.
1:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-142
Well, I've had a scene for a very long time in different contexts, which is context is king.
1:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-160
And I think that really applies when you are building with AI more so than anything else I've ever known.
1:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-178
It's taken me quite a while with all the tools that I have to start to build to a place where there is enough structure, enough context, enough background,
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-198
proper documentation, and then keeping all that documentation up to date and making sure that the AI's got all of that context.
1:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-227
You've got the agents.md set up correctly and whatnot.
1:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-249
All of those things I think has been really key beforehand, it was cool to be able to start from the point of view of code in and then get to that point where you're able to build something, show that it's great, and then you prompt something and it breaks a bunch of features and all that.
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-258
It's just like that typical thing.
2:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-316
If I had a magic wand, I would just love
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-322
the tools that we're using to be a little bit smarter at being able to capture and document all of that.
2:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-332
So it's less reliant on us.
2:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-353
I'm pretty sure it's gonna, you know, it'll get there.
2:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-359
I'd be amazed if that, if that wasn't already happening.
2:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-369
I know it kind of already is happening to some degree, but I find, like, when I use replit, which I'm moving away from at the moment, but it has that the replit.md file, but it doesn't really capture the things that, that you really need.
2:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-379
It doesn't really remember.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-425
The architecture and the decisions that have been made and the direction that you're going in and all those other things that you really do need when you want to just make a change somewhere, but it doesn't end up breaking something.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-429
Or.
2:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-471
Taking too much agency itself.
2:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-472
So it's kind of around like the,
3:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-477
it's like making sure that the tools you're building will have the context.
3:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-484
So like what you've built so far and how the tools work and stuff.
3:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-497
Yeah, and how you want to work as well.
3:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-511
I don't want the agents to go and have complete autonomy over creating lots of tasks and making decisions in the background.
3:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-520
I wanted to have some autonomy and some agency to go and do things, but I really do want that cycle at the start.
3:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-542
I'm just making sure we've got the plan correct and making sure that the right decisions have been made.
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-566
I do find now I'm just moving across to using Curser.
3:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-585
And I'm getting it set up.
3:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-596
I feel like that's really helping.
3:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-602
It certainly is referencing the agents file a lot more than Repl.it used to as well.
3:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-608
But yeah, I feel like that would really help to not necessarily speed things up because speed really isn't the problem anymore, but actually just reduce the amount of issues that might come out at the end of something.
3:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-624
'Cause sometimes it introduces something and you don't even know that actually that's an issue until you're much further in development somewhere else.
4:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-663
I find that's the problem is that I'm picking it.
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-686
When did that happen?
4:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-696
Why did that decision get made?
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-700
And it can be infuriating to have to go through that.
4:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-706
Yeah, sometimes it just deletes things that it really shouldn't have.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-717
It just removes logic that you had in there or something.
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-728
Yeah, because it's just focused on that one task rather than Always having the overarching context of this is always what we're trying to build.
4:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-739
Here are the different decisions that get made and why we've architected it in all this way.
4:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-764
No, you can't go-- it's just recently with them, I was building a real-time gateway for streaming because what Ankit is also doing is that it's building UI where it's able to prompt you with questions in real time for how to move the conversation on, get the right insight, or get more evidence and more detail.
4:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-781
Something in particular.
5:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-838
And so we built this real-time gateway,
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-841
the SSE stuff in the background, and it was great.
5:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-848
And then it just completely broke it because it changed one of the key components with it and completely changed the logic because I wanted to change something in the UI.
5:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-858
So it was only when I actually dig down to detail, ask the questions, I was like, well, I don't understand why you made that.
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-889
And then it does the usual, you know, AI thing of, that's right.
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-914
Yes, I know it's right.
5:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-927
But it's wrong.
5:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-932
You're absolutely right.
5:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-935
I admitted this.
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-938
Yes, he did.
5:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-941
Yeah, that's, I relate a lot.
5:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-944
This is, yeah, so true.
5:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-950
Yeah.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-955
Is there anything else that you would wave a magic wand at?
5:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-956
Asking the question again.
6:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-968
Is there anything else that you would wave a magic wand up in build while building with voice AI or.
6:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-972
Just.
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-992
Creating voice AI powered products?
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-993
Well, you know, one thing that I think you guys have done really well is that I noticed that you, you've got the, the little button.
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-998
In the documentation to be able to download everything in markdown, which made it remarkably easier for me to just be able to take that and give it to CURSA so that we could build the plan to integrate all of it rather than pointing it at different websites and hoping that it's able to scrape all the right information and again, make sure that it understands the context of everything.
6:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1024
So, you know, I think more people doing things like that is really good.
6:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1095
More sort of common integrations and patterns.
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1109
I see people moving towards that again now.
7:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1116
It's funny, I'm leaving Replit and one of the reasons why I was leaving originally was because it didn't have any real integrations other than forcing you into using Neon and these other things that it's got.
7:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1124
But now it's got all the integrations.
7:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1161
Actually, I would have taken advantage of if I was still there.
7:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1168
Yeah.
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1180
Yeah.
7:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1181
I'm not sure otherwise other than that.
7:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1182
I
7:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1189
feel like I've got, there was a lot of issues like going through it and I found
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1190
workarounds that have probably now just become sort of so standardized to me that I don't even see them as problems anymore, maybe.
7:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1207
I see.
7:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1230
Yeah, I know what you mean.
7:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1232
It's like, don't even notice the duct tape stuff anymore.
7:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1238
Yeah.
7:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1248
Yeah, I think so.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1249
I'm pretty sure that, you know, as we continue the conversation, things will start to pop into my head.
7:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1253
Yeah, well, if it also, if it's not like a burning problem, it's not a problem, right?
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1272
Like, if it's like a, if it's a workaround but it works and it's not causing you issues, it's like, that's fine.
8:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1289
That's how it's supposed to be.
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1311
Yeah, that's super interesting.
8:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1317
So it sounds like the stuff that you're getting that's most challenging is actually kind of like the AI powered development, like working with the agents while you're building voice AI products.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1321
Yeah.
8:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1353
Well, just yeah, trying to maintain speed, but also
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1354
accuracy, quality.
8:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1363
And, you know, at the back of that, I think those are the real key things.
8:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1365
Yeah.
8:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1381
If you had better,
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1382
if that kind of worked better, how would it change your life?
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1386
Well, I mean, I have a huge amount of ideas and things that I'd love to be able to implement and the ability to I basically, I have one day a week off work where I dedicate to working on Anika so I can do whatever I can in that one day.
9:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1398
And normally it's a lot, certainly compared to the other job, the amount that we could move internally versus how I move on a Friday is absolute night and day.
9:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1450
It is quite actually, I find it really infuriating a lot of the time now.
9:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1480
See how slow everything is and how difficult it is to try and make everything move.
9:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1495
And I'm like, I literally built that in like two hours.
9:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1511
Same infrastructure, same issues, you know.
9:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1522
But yeah,
9:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1528
I have this fight one day.
9:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1530
I think if AI
9:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1536
had more of that context and that ability to be able to move faster with me, naturally, I think we'd be able to move the product on a lot faster and develop more at speed.
9:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1540
Super cool.
10:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1575
Super cool.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1577
And is there anything that's changed over the last year, six months that has
10:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1579
made it more valuable to be able to move faster and ship faster now?
10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1593
I think it's probably just the speed at which the market is moving.
10:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1607
So you have to be able to react.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1620
I certainly feel like I'm on a
10:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1628
timeline with a big wall fast approaching where you kind of have to get not just a demo but something that is an MVP
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1635
either to market or to a place where actually you can really start to show it to lots of people to secure some funding to be able to make it more of a reality and whatnot.
10:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1659
So I I do think that being able to really get all of these tools working in a way where I can significantly build and move the product forward and react to the feedback that I'm hearing and collating and whatnot is vital.
10:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1695
And I don't think I'd be able to do it at the same, oh, I wouldn't be able to do it at the same speed.
11:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1738
It's called it a year ago, I think six months ago, probably still be in quite a good place for it, but a bit like a year ago.
11:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1763
Yeah, I don't think I probably could have built the product a year or 18 months ago in the way that I have now, certainly to the complexity that it has, considering that although I had some qualifications way like 20 years ago, it's got to be now.
11:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1791
I haven't spent my whole life
11:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1839
in tech.
11:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1845
I was a learning professional by heart for many, many years and then kind of got back into tech.
11:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1847
It was always my passion, really.
11:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1866
So yeah, I know enough to be dangerous, I would say.
11:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1872
I think that makes me a good shoe product officer, certainly one that looks after engineering, but not enough to go and code from scratch my own products, you know, and do DevOps and other bits and pieces as well.
11:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1883
Now that's an area actually, now that I've just said that, I think that's an area of
12:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1923
that I need to explore a little bit more.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1940
Again, something like Replit makes it really easy.
12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1949
I just deploy.
12:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1957
But I'm like, well, now I'm moving to Casir, what am I going to do?
12:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1960
How are we going to do this in the future?
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1975
I think that's probably another area that's really ripe.
12:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1985
Or maybe there's already quite a few products and I just don't know it yet.
12:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-1994
But it could really help people like me to make sure we've got the right setup for DevOps and deployments and whatnot.
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2009
Yeah, that's a big space.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2031
Yeah, future problem for me rather than an existing one.
12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2036
That's one of the advantages of using Replit.
12:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2046
I don't like using Level up anymore.
13:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2054
I think it's too simple.
13:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2061
It's too focused on people that just want to create demos and prototypes and all of that.
13:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2066
But Replit does have that enough to be able to really get going.
13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2083
That's very cool.
13:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2096
Yeah, I need to play around with it more.
13:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2099
What's your setup?
13:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2108
Are you already in Cura?
13:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2111
Are you already using...
13:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2116
I was using Cura, but weirdly, I can't remember why, but I think I went back to VS Code recently, and I'm just using Codex, the
13:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2120
OpenAI version of Claude Code, basically.
13:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2146
Yeah.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2152
And we really like it.
13:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2153
And also the other thing that is quite good is we've got an integration in Slack.
13:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2158
So we could say, like, Ask Cursor.
13:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2174
So even people that don't want to go, like, people in our team that wouldn't want to go mess around with code because it feels very like CLI, they can just say, oh, can you just add this to the docs?
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2181
Can you mention this?
14:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2222
This link is broken in the docs or stuff like that.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2226
Or like our website's in Framer, but they could do it on the website if like that was a thing.
14:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2237
And so, yeah, I really like Codex and you can use it on your phone as well, which is really cool.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2257
Yeah.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2278
Yeah, I use Codex for code reviews.
14:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2279
You know, I do really like it.
14:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2286
But I used to appear so got like, what they call bug bot now that they've started to roll out, but I really do like you can use it in Codex in that way.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2293
Yeah, maybe I should go back and check out Cursor again.
14:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2327
It's just like, I think the subscriptions were set up at my layer code for Codex.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2338
And I was paying for Cursor personally, but then I was like, okay, I might as well just use Codex.
14:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2354
But yeah, I should go back and check it out.
14:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2374
Sorry, one last question.
14:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2384
I'd love to see a demo.
14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2388
How do you discover new tools?
14:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2394
How did you discover Replit, for instance?
14:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2400
Well, I've been setting up my LinkedIn for a long time to subscribe to a huge number of people that are posting about their very latest things in the field, what they're doing with it, a lot of people that now kind of share any 10 templates and videos and demos of what they're doing, that's really interesting.
15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2407
And I think with my role, especially in a fuse, I'm also trying to make sure I collate all this stuff so I can share it with all the different people internally.
15:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2465
Hey, content team, this is what's happening with day 3.1 has just come out the other day.
15:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2497
They've already got videos and information about it so that they can start to go and explore all of that.
15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2514
And so I really use LinkedIn as that kind of key place, obviously product hunt and quite a few newsletters.
15:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2534
I think
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2554
that's where I see all of these new tools come out.
15:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2556
And that's a lot of the time where I'm actually then going and subscribing and going on to a waitlist and all of that because I'm like, yeah, this is cool.
15:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2567
This could be really interesting for me or for Fuse or whatever.
15:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2598
I will just dive in and and give it a go.
16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2610
I've done it for loads of stuff.
16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2621
Any particular newsletters that you like?
16:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2628
Well, I mean, we've got all the usual sort of product ones like Lenny's Newsletter and whatnot.
16:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2634
I'd have to go to my email.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2651
I
16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2658
wondered if there's any that you really check.
16:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2659
I guess Lenny's is a good one.
16:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2667
It is a good one.
16:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2674
I wouldn't say it's one that
16:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2679
that normally kind of Services, the, the more interesting stuff for me.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2685
But, yeah, I mean, if you are interested, I'd be happy just to, like, get some, get some things, you know, and I can share those with you.
16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2697
Oh, yeah, that would be great.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2725
Yeah.
16:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2731
But, Reese, I'd love to, if you want to, I'd love to see a demo if you're, if you're, if you're up for it.
16:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2732
Yeah.
16:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2756
Yeah.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2757
Well, sure.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2758
Like I say, I mean, hope, you know, to see whether it It works on that.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2760
I think I'm still in that really sort of nervous new stage.
16:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2776
Oh yeah.
16:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2788
Well hopefully even if it doesn't work, hopefully doing it to me will make you less nervous next time when...
17:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2790
Absolutely.
17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2810
Yeah.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2811
Get the habits in.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2812
No that's fine.
17:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2816
Well I will share the tab here.
17:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2819
So yeah, I mean, so like I was saying, I mean, with Annika, we started off with, you know, being all about how do we help humans be the best they can be in meetings?
17:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2826
That was the sort of the seed of the idea.
17:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2861
And then where we've gone from there then is, well, actually, you know, it's a much bigger problem than that.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2871
That is part of it, but actually, as a human,
17:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2891
you can only attend so many meetings anyway, right?
17:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2901
I mean, how many meetings can you do every single week with with prospective customers and whatnot.
17:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2910
So what we're building is that a tool that can help you within meetings, but at the same time, you can also then actually go and do autonomous meetings.
17:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2927
So it's not just about doing meetings per se, it's actually about discovery projects.
18:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2956
And where I'm starting to aim this right now is solo entrepreneurs, kind of like myself.
18:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2970
Well, I've got a co-founder, so maybe that's not the right title for me.
18:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-2986
But people like me that are able to to get a real product, test it, get it out there, be able to react to feedback, but also people that want to potentially be able to go and get investment.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3000
And so being able to create a project where you can have a series of meetings, some that I do, like maybe they're more in-depth conversations, and then you've got the conversations where you just need more information, maybe it's shorter five, 10 minute conversations, and Anika can actually go and do that and have that meeting.
18:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3039
That's, I should say, roadmap, not really going to see today.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3096
But the autonomous bit is where we want to go and then add different tools into it, surveys and whatnot, so that if you are looking for validation for your idea to take it further, or for your company that's got seed funding and you're going for Series A, or you want to get new, you're trying to get new revenue streams but you don't know which one to go for, to be able to go for Series B, Series C, it's also a tool for that.
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3107
When you get into it, and this is the bit that I haven't got installed at the moment, it should be Copilot Lite, which is the browser extension.
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3194
Rather than you seeing this screen here, well, I should be having a conversation with you in the browser.
19:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3222
Then on the right-hand side, I would then just see Anika, and it's able to tell me what are the questions that I should be asking.
19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3241
You go through a process at the start and this is where layer code is going to come in now where you prep for the projects and then for the individual meetings and we want to use layer code so that Anika has a five minute conversation with you to build, you know, what are the, well first of all, what are the goals that you actually want to get out of this particular meeting or this project?
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3267
And then within those goals then, what are the objectives of those?
20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3345
So when we take these things off, we know we've actually then completed that.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3357
And then what Anika is doing is it's having the conversation is it's, it's, you know, there's like a four or five different agents in the background, triaging the transcript as it comes through, it's then passing it to the analyst.
20:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3371
The analyst is then, you know, looking at evidence and updating, it's passing it then to the, you know, the interviewer agent that's then generating and reviewing all the questions and whatnot.
20:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3412
And so in like near real time then it's continuously updating and helping you to be able to make sure that you get the very best and you see how you're doing in the meeting.
20:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3444
It's got all the reason and the logic in the background then to say, hey, you've only got like five minutes left, but you need to maybe ask just this one question.
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3479
It'll just get rid of everything else and just say, here's the question that you should just ask next.
20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3511
So like I said, it started from the seed of the idea of it being about the meeting, but actually for me now, the meeting is just one tool.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3530
In a kit that we're going to be building out.
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3559
Voice interaction, I think, is the starting point for this.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3569
So the onboarding flow would be speaking to Anika, what are you trying to actually do?
21:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3579
And then from there, build a project plan that then generates meetings, goes and looks on LinkedIn, finds the very best people that you should probably speak to based on the project that you want to do, hopefully connections of yours, so you can just go and send them an invite.
21:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3595
You know, and then either you turn up or annika can turn up and, and do all of that and send out, you know, surveys and, and other bits and pieces.
21:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3646
Yeah.
21:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3677
Super cool.
21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3678
Yeah.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3680
So I, i, it's, it's not, you know, i'm sure you the ui, it's not, not actually updating or anything at the moment because this is just a demo, like, meeting that was, was run before, but, but, yeah, I mean, that, that's what we are.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3681
That's what we're building.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3727
At the moment, you know, I want to just be able to help people to be able to validate really quickly, you know?
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3731
So rather than spending weeks and months having meetings with people, you could maybe do projects in days or weeks instead.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3754
Yeah, it's crucial.
22:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3775
Yeah, I feel like this is the thing that startups fail at the most, right?
22:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3778
Just
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3793
working on something that no one cares about or like kind of just isn't pressing enough or something like that.
22:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3794
It's just Yeah, just like that.
22:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3814
Well, that's the other angle of it as well, isn't it?
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3820
So if you just continue to get, you know, you probably won't get negative feedback per se, but nonchalance in meetings and whatnot.
22:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3831
People are just like, yeah, that's cool, you know, but actually there's no buying signals, you know, so we've been doing meetings and I, you know, and it's been prompting me just to say, ask whether they would commit the company's money to it.
22:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3854
And I have, you know, and people are like, yeah, we would, we would do that.
22:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3898
So it's good.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3914
And actually, even it pushes me in the meeting, which is quite cool.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3917
We've had it up and running and set up properly.
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3930
Oh, yeah.
23:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3940
That's like a kind of.
23:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3942
Yeah.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3947
Like the co-pilot there for you.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3948
That's you.
23:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3954
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
23:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3956
It's like it just keeps nudging and just saying, well, it's always trying to find buying signals, you know, and it's based on sort of different product discovery Frameworks in the background.
23:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3959
It's not like, oh, you know, like, we're going to use this framework and whatever, you know, it's fine to talk.
23:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-3991
So it keeps it really to the business, but in the background it's all structured and thinking about how do we map out things like jobs to be done and other elements within product and capture all of those so that it's then there.
23:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4012
And
23:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4056
then the bit that comes after that then is the insights cloud, which is taking all of these different insights that we've got and then being able to put those together, first of all at the meeting, but then at the project level.
23:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4057
So how do we start to build and show all of the insights and summarize how your project's going or what we've concluded so far from that.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4100
I think the bit that then becomes really interesting is what if you take it up another level?
24:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4127
And so it's not just insights for projects, but it's insights for product or insights for a company potentially because it doesn't just have to be about discovery.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4145
It could be sales and customer service and all of that in the future.
24:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4173
That's where I think it could get really, really interesting is if you can really see what people are actually having conversations about and all the insights you're gathering for customers at scale.
24:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4187
I think that's always the thing, right?
24:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4220
The moment that you put its effort to set up an app, install it in a dozen different places, get everybody to use it and all that, I think that's the difficulty.
24:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4227
So it's kind of working out how you just make it.
24:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4259
That's just hassle, isn't it?
24:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4270
But if you just turn it on and it starts giving you feedback and insights, it's, yeah, no problem.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4275
Absolutely, yeah.
25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4294
Well, I mean, even with the codebase a bit, if it's, let's say, at a company level, if it's installed at the company level, then we can just autonomously grab the transcript that gets generated if it's like Google Meets or something.
25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4296
I also just think integrations into the other apps.
25:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4338
Like you say, you know, you mentioned granola earlier on.
25:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4347
Like, I use granola.
25:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4357
I've got loads of people in my company using it now so that we can pull things together.
25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4361
But if you can just grab all of that and bring it in, it's just more, more insight.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4379
Yeah.
25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4397
Because I guess granola is just kind of sitting there right now, mostly.
25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4398
Like, it's very rare that I'll go look at the granola, you know, like it's, I've got it, but it's like, maybe some people will look at it more because they.
25:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4411
Need to do the follow-up calls and stuff like that.
25:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4442
But
25:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4452
for the average person, I feel like it just goes and sits there until it, I guess until you maybe need something, you couldn't remember something, but, like.
26:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4453
That'S how I use it as well.
26:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4481
I mean, that's the same.
26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4488
It's, you know, we've caught all of my meetings and work, but now and again, I will, somebody will say, hey, we need to go on a call with this customer.
26:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4493
I'm like, great.
26:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4524
Well, let's see what we've spoken to them about.
26:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4527
And we can just see everything and just have a conversation with all the transcripts then, you know, to make sure that we're fully prepared.
26:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4536
I think stuff like that is really good.
26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4561
It's not quite what we're trying to solve.
26:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4569
That's not the same thing.
26:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4577
No, no, no, no.
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4582
You're more about surfacing it.
26:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4586
Sorry.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4591
I feel like you're more about surfacing it and get people getting actions out of it rather than just, like, remembering what they said.
26:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4592
Absolutely, yeah.
26:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4616
Rhys, thank you so much for your time.
26:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4618
Really appreciate it.
26:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4626
We'd love to do a follow-up call in two or three months if it would work for you.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4629
Yeah, I'd love to show you
27:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4647
the prep flow and the tooling.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4653
Once you finish building it, we should be done with that.
27:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4659
Next week or so.
27:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4670
Okay, yeah, yeah, send it to me.
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4674
We could do that.
27:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4681
We could do another call once you've got like a demo or something, another like live one, especially a voice, we'd love to see that.
27:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4685
That'd be great, yeah, I'd be very happy to do that.
27:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4710
Yeah, so would you want to let us know when you do that?
27:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4721
And we could also book in one anyway if you want in like two or three months because we're with this technical advisory board, our initial plan was to do like one a month for like six months.
27:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4734
We kind of realized it was like quite intense for founders building stuff and also not necessarily like, you know, a lot.
27:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4772
I think, you know, for like voice AI challenges specifically, it doesn't always change that much every month.
27:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4794
It's like can be like quite big challenges often.
28:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4812
The ones that really matter don't get solved in a month.
28:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4821
So,
28:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4832
typically.
28:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4833
Yeah.
28:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4834
So I'll send a email that with a link, if that works, to have another.
28:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4835
Yeah.
28:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4850
Well, yeah, we'll put that in and then, yeah, I, I'll, I'll get back in touch when we've got something to show it, but love to show it and love to talk a little bit about how it's working and, you know, yeah, experience of building it, you know, and, and what can I have?
28:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4851
We would love to hear that.
28:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4906
Yeah.
28:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4912
That sounds amazing.
28:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4913
Excellent.
28:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4916
All right, well, thanks very much.
28:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4917
Love you to meet you.
28:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4923
Have a great day.
28:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4928
See ya.
28:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/15#word-4932

-----

Episode: Jan Siml (Swap) TAB call 1
Incredibly useful. Skip to 20:58 to the end to hear Jan talk about our positioning
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14

Resisting my urge to ask you about your London eBay AirPods edition, because I just saw that and it's very interesting.
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-0
But I'll hold that off.
0:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-21
Yeah, so
0:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-26
Jan, in voice AI in general, with the stuff that you've been doing, If you could wave a magic wand at anything to change it, make it better,
0:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-28
just what would you wave it at?
0:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-56
So there is an hopeful answer which I have to say, which is I would wave it to be a founder of a successful startup that just exited.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-63
So I can finally like chill out and just build for fun.
0:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-91
But in terms of what you were actually asking.
0:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-103
So like win the lottery basically and that's in that front or like just-.
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-112
Oh, having like a successful startup, it's like more you deserve the money.
1:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-126
I just want to fast.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-139
Yeah.
1:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-144
You get more like status as well.
1:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-145
Oh, I don't care about that.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-152
I just want the money.
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-158
Okay.
1:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-163
With the voice AI,
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-164
I would love a magical wand where I wave it and basically I couldn't care less that it's a voice AI or text AI or image AI.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-168
I just want one thing that basically is my agent one framework and it doesn't really matter which modality I use.
1:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-195
And that's kind of not necessarily abstracted way because we solve with LangChain how that can get really shit and basically it's unmaintainable.
1:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-216
But it's more
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-239
having the right primitives that if you want to bolt on the other modalities and things, when you have something like your compositional pipeline, to make it so effortless that basically you don't really notice the additional lift.
1:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-242
If you had that, how would it change your life?
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-280
Because I wouldn't have to worry about Voice Agent.
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-290
Ideally, when I say that, that in my head includes some way of dealing with latency.
2:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-299
So potentially having some pattern that I can just copy paste, you know, Shenzhen style, but like AI SDK where I sleep in this other small model that keeps kind of chatting to the user while my bigger pipeline runs.
2:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-315
And then I can stop fucking around with these dumb models and literally chug my sonnet
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-355
to basically deliver the intelligence.
2:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-371
I don't have to worry too much about prompt thing because it's pretty smart.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-376
And in the meantime, this simple model on the side will basically keep commenting on, oh, we have just started doing this tool.
2:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-390
Oh, yeah, I'm still looking because it's been three seconds and we haven't given an update.
2:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-413
Oh, there are so many products in our database, but we are really working on it.
2:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-429
It would give me a recipe like Shatian style that, oh, does your pipeline take longer than five seconds?
3:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-445
Then you should use these components to to make the waiting shorter.
3:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-464
That would be an ideal world.
3:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-476
Basically, seamless voice as an addition, because I don't believe in a voice as a standalone modality.
3:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-482
It's too noisy, too imperfect, too difficult because it requires some privacy and all this shit.
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-499
I don't think it's a big thing on its own.
3:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-515
I think it's going to be useful only when you seamlessly can jump between all the different things.
3:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-525
And do you see it as like, is it, if it kind of collapses into like one thing, is it like, kind of you deal with text or is it just
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-543
like, yeah, yeah, that's.
3:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-574
Kind of the modality that's like, it would be harder to deal with images or sounds.
3:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-578
So I would have a text agent.
4:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-594
The idea there is, I wish that It
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-601
will be easy for our design team to figure out an experience because we will be able to tell them, hey, it's going to take this many seconds to do this, this many seconds to do that.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-609
We can like entertain the user so they can do their design.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-646
And all we will focus on is not going to be like, how do we get this voice platform up in the air?
4:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-658
We will just use the tools we already know in the past that would have been like PyTorch AI where we wanted to run OR.
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-681
AI and we would just basically build the tools we need to run the application that we want to run.
4:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-706
And voice would be just a thing that you almost like, yeah, I want the voice too.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-726
Yeah.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-743
Yeah.
4:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-744
So you don't want to go down this very specific world of voice.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-745
You want it to just be like.
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-758
Yeah, because that's what it is.
4:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-765
I don't want to undermine what you guys are doing.
4:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-771
Not at all.
5:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-781
No.
5:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-784
But if I was doing this myself, you just slap in the STT TTS around your normal pipeline.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-785
There is a bit more latency, but hey, that's life.
5:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-803
And you just go with it.
5:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-813
It's just like you add a button, sometimes you integrate it slightly better in your UI, but that's what it is.
5:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-819
True, true.
5:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-840
Yeah, it makes total sense.
5:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-842
If you could wave a magic wand at anything else, what would you wave it up?
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-847
Outside of the voice AI or more ambitious?
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-863
Or is there like a number two thing that you,
5:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-871
I guess if that didn't exist
5:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-881
and there was like kind of more of like a
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-887
immediate, I don't know, like kind of right now wave it up, I guess.
5:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-897
Sort of.
5:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-911
I don't know.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-913
However you want to answer it, to be honest.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-916
Yeah.
6:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-925
I'll leave it to you, as always.
6:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-926
Focus on voice AI or in general, what I worry about or what I'm thinking about.
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-933
Actually, yeah, let's do in general.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-949
If we take out voice AI, what would you wait for?
6:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-955
Magic wand up.
6:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-966
For me right now, it's still voice AI, but basically what I'm thinking about is also how do I deliver the memory layer to this?
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-969
Because
6:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-994
it has the same problem that you have some providers that kind of give you something out of the book, but it's shared, so you end up doing the work anyway.
6:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-995
Then you get a custom, but when you start doing a custom, you don't actually know all the edge cases and you haven't really tuned your tooling for the model to really understand all the edge cases because you haven't pushed the volume of memories through it.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1026
So you basically
6:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1073
you have to give in, sorry, very specifically memory layer, let up, obvious one, right?
7:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1076
Because literally there, DevRel is a friend of mine, ultimately didn't decide to go for it because I have to use their SDK, their abstraction.
7:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1091
Even though I can self host it, it still imposes, you need to use Postgres, you need to capture everything.
7:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1116
I don't care about that.
7:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1136
I need 10% of their features right now.
7:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1141
So the complexity trade-off right now is not worth it.
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1149
It might be in the future, but like right now when I'm sprinting, I don't care.
7:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1159
We don't have like six months to plan out like what will be the optimal agent because the reality is it's kind of a build or die.
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1175
If we don't build it fast enough, if we don't release it fast enough, like we're gonna pivot and go something else because everyone else would have done it.
7:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1202
Yeah.
7:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1231
So in that world, I basically built my custom thing in two days.
7:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1232
It's too hacky and something
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1245
that would be really good primitives like Pydantic AI style where they basically bake in good engineering practices, good best practices of the workflows that they see from other teams.
7:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1250
They
8:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1280
just converge on them and create a light abstraction layer that you can just hack on.
8:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1281
That would have been amazing if it was in memory.
8:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1297
I couldn't find any.
8:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1307
Then search.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1311
Search is trivial.
8:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1313
Million businesses do it for you.
8:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1316
It's very hard decision because everyone wants to own their data.
8:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1322
So we end up running with GCP Cloud SQL, which is this really crippled Postgres instance where a bunch of but the extensions don't work.
8:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1333
So I can't even do fucking BM25.
8:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1358
So now my, some of my queries have P 99 line that say, oh, 15 seconds, even though I can do the same workload on my laptop in one millisecond.
8:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1365
Yeah.
8:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1395
It's like completely stupid, but I'm basically locked in to certain architecture and infrastructure decisions
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1396
and I need to, get that to work.
9:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1411
And if it was easy to switch over to someone who would manage the search for us, I think we would do it.
9:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1419
It's just everyone promises it, but it's not always that easy.
9:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1442
I build a full POC on Vespa, if you know them.
9:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1453
They
9:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1464
are basically a bunch of these old school searches as well with some big names.
9:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1465
It's a really fast database, but basically you configure the whole thing in these crazy configs.
9:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1480
Which means it's very domain specific, right?
9:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1496
And I have literally, I built a whole GenAI's ecosystem in Julia language, so I know exactly what I want when I'm building this system.
9:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1503
And I was still struggling to basically navigate how they do all these things in their config formats.
9:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1528
So that gives me abstraction for the infra, which is great, but it doesn't give me abstraction to basically quickly build the thing I want.
9:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1546
Which might be too niche of an ask because ultimately you spend longer time hosting your services than building them.
10:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1571
But the world I know and the world I'm in, in this weird space, is mostly the world of building and sprinting.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1591
And in that world, I haven't found a good search provider.
10:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1613
So right now I'm basically just hacking on top of Postgres and I'm always this close to basically chugging my local search powered by NumPy because I can beat the shit out of any search index I can see.
10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1624
Yeah.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1663
Yeah.
10:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1664
So that's kind of the, those are the concerns, basically not necessarily the voice agent itself, but like the voice is one layer of the cake, but then there is all the tools that they need, one of which is always going to be some sort of a retrieval.
10:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1665
Then there is always the memory because nowadays, like without memory, you can probably, probably everyone expects it in a way.
10:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1714
It doesn't have to be fancy, but like you need it.
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1735
So those are the other things I'm thinking about.
10:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1746
That's super, super helpful.
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1755
Yeah.
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1759
It is very helpful.
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1760
Yeah.
11:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1764
So as you kind of see like the big picture, what actually like, yeah, is what actually is the biggest problem, I guess, with like, is it like the fact that you mentioned that some of the searches are slow, stuff like that?
11:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1765
Is there anything that's actually really a blocker for getting it out and stuff?
11:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1808
It's not a biggest blocker for us.
11:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1822
This is proprietary, so make sure you don't share this video.
11:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1829
Biggest blocker for us is because we want to compete with Shopify, which is strategically the dumbest decision I've ever heard of.
11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1840
We are Shopify plugin.
11:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1862
Our whole business line is basically Shopify plugin.
11:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1866
So if they cut us off, we lost the whole business.
11:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1874
You can't raise, you can't build, you're done.
11:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1885
And because of that, we are building out separate checkout and everything because their terms and conditions are you can't use their checkout partially, you need to really buy in or you need to do everything else.
11:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1893
So obviously for the actual devs, their biggest nightmare is dealing with the terms of the service and payments.
12:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1930
But that is not my problem, right?
12:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1949
Because that's vanilla, that's engineering.
12:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1956
Like figure out your shit, like how will you pay and do the checkout and everything.
12:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1961
Because I need to worry only about the AI pieces.
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1977
That is what they worry about.
12:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1987
And to be clear, most of it is
12:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-1993
there is right now one of me for foreseeable a few months.
12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2001
I think we already hired a bunch of people, but long,
12:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2013
they have always three months notice.
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2024
So there is effectively one of me.
12:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2030
And now that I've finished memory, I will move on to search and I will make it faster.
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2037
However I do it, I will figure out a way to make it faster, more indices.
12:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2055
It's still a database.
12:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2071
It all can be solved, but ultimately
12:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2075
there are too many choices, too many dev tools, too many providers.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2082
You tend to know one which has obviously like yourself, podcasts or whatever.
13:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2094
You basically awareness because of the channels you consume.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2107
Sometimes you top it up with some research, then you have a bunch of other providers.
13:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2116
Even if you basically move as fast as you can, you end up with this weird, like basically having to build it because docs, you can't really trust docs.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2132
You need to build the thing to understand what the real edge cases are.
13:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2161
And with every one of these, you basically end up two to five days building the piece of the platform you need, not even putting it all together
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2175
for every piece of that final proposition.
13:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2203
So
13:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2210
it's basically this like, It's this empirical science to an extent where basically even like choosing providers, this empirical science.
13:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2211
That's why I had to build for voice agents.
13:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2231
I had to build this like side by side comparison of all of them.
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2240
Until you build it, when you just look at the docs, you have no idea that Gemini was like single most painful thing to get done to properly connect.
13:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2254
Now that was fine, but like at the time their dogs were just insufficient for what they had.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2283
And even all your coding agents, just can't figure it out.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2301
So you basically need to build it.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2312
You need to do it.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2319
And that takes multiple days if you have only limited time.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2324
Of course, yeah.
14:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2335
So I guess that's the challenge.
14:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2338
But yeah, there might be people who know it.
14:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2344
But the other thing I had to deal with was virtual drown, right?
14:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2353
Yet another piece of it, which is completely visual video generation, all those pieces.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2366
So knowing all the models, all the workflows.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2380
So none of these really
14:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2388
They are not really adjacent.
14:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2393
There is no knowledge.
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2398
It's completely different domains and you kind of end up with all of them.
14:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2402
Sorry, what did you say?
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2416
Virtual what?
14:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2421
Virtual town.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2423
Virtual town.
14:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2425
Virtual town.
14:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2427
So in our app, when you basically select the garden.
14:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2429
Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2439
So you can see how it looks on you.
14:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2445
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2454
Which requires image model, video models, background removals, different things, which is a completely different modality, which you need to integrate in your app.
15:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2458
And it has its own latencies, its own failures and stuff.
15:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2482
Yeah, I guess I've seen, yeah, I saw like levels.
15:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2493
I was doing that, right?
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2503
We've seen him doing the with Fal and I think he's just...
15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2508
Yeah, he.
15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2520
Does a lot of this interior designing for whatever reason.
15:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2522
Photo AI as well, yeah.
15:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2532
That's super cool.
15:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2537
That's fun.
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2540
Okay.
15:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2542
Very, very cool.
15:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2543
So it's like the challenges is like, is it almost like you're saying like you just need to build it yourself in a way, like you or like you build it yourself first and then use tools rather than you can't just go straight to the tool.
15:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2546
No, I usually go into the tool, but basically I need to build the thing I want.
15:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2593
With the pool to learn whether it's actually useful because
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2610
I don't understand whether it can do the thing I want very quickly.
16:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2620
It's like opening a real time, right?
16:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2633
It's the same thing ever in the docs.
16:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2640
Just do this real time voice agent.
16:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2648
Boom, you're done.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2655
You can define the tools, put an MCP there, you're done, right?
16:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2658
Turns out you're not because if you want to do any other operations, all the transcripts and things, you have to hook into the transport layer, which is like pure session data.
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2670
So you need to read up all the docs and figure out what the events are.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2702
And they have a lot of them.
16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2718
Yeah, yeah.
16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2725
Basically start changing everything by sending these real time events and ending your turns and things like that.
16:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2727
So everything is magical in the docs, but not in reality.
16:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2745
And that's why you have to build to try.
16:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2756
Yeah, that's
16:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2765
always the case.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2767
Yeah.
16:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2770
Sorry, it's always we're part of that as well.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2771
But it's a, It's a challenge.
16:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2780
How do you find tools actually?
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2786
By the way, just one quick question.
17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2792
How do you discover tools and stuff?
17:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2799
How do you...
17:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2806
I
17:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2809
depends on the tools.
17:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2810
If it's a package or something else.
17:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2814
I tend to have like two to three windows of ChatGPT open at any point in time anyway.
17:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2821
Because basically I'm in a constant learning mode because I'm building all these things.
17:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2839
Yeah, of course.
17:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2853
Generally, I don't find myself, I always know a tool that I would use because I spend probably
17:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2856
two to three hours a day listening to all the various podcasts.
17:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2874
Oh, cool.
17:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2886
And reading all the small AI news and refreshing my ex probably too much.
17:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2888
Because I listen at 4x speed.
17:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2902
I actually cover a lot of podcasts.
18:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2908
4X speed.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2915
Yeah.
18:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2917
So I tend to have a reasonably good awareness because of all the various channels of what the are, but that doesn't mean I have used them.
18:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2918
Yeah, that's where always the issue is.
18:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2945
Most of the time, the bottleneck is.
18:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2952
And I was like, oh, search, we should do Vesta.
18:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2959
They do Colbert and all these cool things.
18:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2969
And then you actually try to use it and you realize, well, I would be the only person in the startup who would actually know how to do anything.
18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-2977
Yeah.
18:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3006
And that's not a good one, right?
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3007
When you need to scale around and things.
18:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3014
Get people to use it.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3022
Yeah.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3027
So yeah, that's always the challenge.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3028
But yeah, that's what you learn when you actually build with the tools.
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3034
But the very nice is standard.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3047
Yeah.
18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3053
Newsletters.
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3054
Yeah.
18:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3055
The tech news one as well.
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3056
You know, comes every 1pm and 2pm.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3062
There are two different ones.
18:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3069
TLDR, I think, is the one.
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3074
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3080
That one I like as well because it keeps me current on top of the small, small AI one.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3084
Have you got to use that console Dev on console.dev?
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3103
I don't know that one.
19:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3113
Yeah, it's quite a good one.
19:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3118
It might cover some,
19:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3124
I don't think it's going to give you the full thing, but what they try to do is they say like, here's what it's good at, here's what we like, what we don't like about each tool.
19:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3128
And so you might get some, I know, because you said that's the challenge, is knowing what it can't do.
19:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3165
But I, sorry, go on.
19:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3185
I think, no, I was going to say, I think they used to spend a lot more time doing that.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3190
I feel like they don't, I know the guy is a really cool guy, but he's got a startup now, so
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3210
yeah.
19:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3231
Cool.
19:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3232
Sorry, what were you going to say?
19:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3233
No idea.
19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3240
I was going to say, I read even these various blog posts of people using different things, but it still doesn't cover that what you want to do with the restrictions you have, which are imposed by what the design wants to do, what your PM thinks the functions should be and what your architecture is mostly laid out with your infra.
19:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3242
Within that, when you then start using any of these tools, it might still be very different thing, but it's very cool when someone shrinks it.
20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3304
I don't do Hacker News and I don't do Product Hunt and any of these things.
20:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3330
Yeah, yeah.
20:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3346
Makes sense.
20:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3348
Yeah.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3350
I don't think that many people use product hunt.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3351
I think obviously a lot use Hacker News, but for like product hunt is it's good, but it's something that's good to do, but you know, it's not.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3360
And I think it's where most people get their information.
20:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3388
Amazing.
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3398
Well, yeah, that was so helpful.
20:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3399
That's all the questions I had.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3405
So we can Can I ask you.
20:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3411
Something about layer code?
20:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3418
Yeah, absolutely.
20:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3422
So I had like random call about this with Damien at some point and I gave him like brain dump.
20:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3424
One thing that I was struggling to figure out is like,
21:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3444
who do you guys want to serve?
21:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3455
Like I really can't figure it out from your, because like,
21:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3462
even as a dev tool, you can't be too general as a dev tool because then you're unusable.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3473
You always have to pick something and it wasn't clear to me because everyone else is like already positioning who they want to serve and which vertical and potentially use case as well.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3491
Who is it for LayerCoke?
21:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3524
If you had to, just before I answer that, if you had to say who you thought it was for, just be curious.
21:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3529
It sounds like you don't know, but if you had to just
21:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3552
say, someone held a gun to your head, who is it for?
21:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3564
Well, I would say it's devs.
21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3576
But
21:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3582
that also doesn't make sense because you still need devs who are AI engineers.
21:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3583
So it's like a subtranche of that.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3597
And within that, I am still not seeing...
21:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3604
I don't see how you stand out too strongly.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3612
Who are the devs who need the full control and have that kind of scale that you guys need for all these things to fit together.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3621
So that's why I was curious.
22:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3647
Yeah, I think, well, I would say right now, firstly, I don't think we're doing a good job on this.
22:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3653
That's one thing.
22:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3673
So I think our answer is probably not going to be like satisfying answer.
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3676
But.
22:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3690
I think we've narrowed it down to devs, as you said.
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3691
But as you also said, it's just
22:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3702
not narrow enough.
22:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3709
My personal view is that we should narrow it down to like JavaScript first, like TypeScript and really integrate well with like AI SDK and stuff.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3712
As a.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3738
First port of call
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3740
and try and just do that really well and just have lots of good TypeScript examples.
23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3744
Good.
23:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3760
Even just focusing on Next.js and just really double down on that.
23:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3761
Because I think that's the one that we know a little bit better.
23:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3773
But,
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3786
yeah,
23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3787
that's my view.
23:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3788
But right now we are also just trying to, I think, just talk to a lot of people and maybe figure out where there are gaps because
23:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3791
I think, I don't know, it's already starting to feel like a lot of people are figuring out the pipeline stuff.
23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3818
Okay.
23:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3839
There's like, at the scale is like really difficult, but maybe there are like some kind of tools around.
23:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3840
Like I feel like a lot of people might end up, I don't know, our feeling maybe is that a lot of people are going to end up using the real time APIs and just run it through open AI.
23:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3859
And so then like, where can we be useful?
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3899
Are there things that people are building with voice AI that like, we can build.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3908
But it's very much like we're trying to
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3923
be useful.
24:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3931
That's why we're trying to do all these calls.
24:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3933
We're putting a lot of time on
24:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3942
trying to figure out where we can actually solve problems that aren't being solved well.
24:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3949
That would be interesting because I don't think even TypeScript Dev is narrow enough.
24:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3964
I would love to.
24:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3978
It's none of my business.
24:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3982
No, no, no, it is.
24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3987
It is your business.
24:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3992
We want to hear.
24:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-3996
You know, I am solving a problem of I'm not building a voice agent.
24:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4000
I'm building a factory of voice agent.
24:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4014
Right.
25:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4021
So what I need is actually to be able to create a customized voice agents for different brands and run that whole kind of factory.
25:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4022
Yeah.
25:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4047
So I'm a dev, but, like, I have a specific take, which is, like, this repeatable pattern, because I'm serving a lot of brands.
25:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4048
If you go to a dev, then they might be serving one brand which has its own unique things, right?
25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4072
Like if you look at 11 labs, they clearly figured out the single biggest thing where you need voice is customer support.
25:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4092
So they literally have a widget, you drop on the web page, you have this stupid playground configurator, whatever, and you're done.
25:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4114
So they are targeting the dev who's kind of not too much of a dev, but it's so simple.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4136
And also they like hit this like, They didn't go for vertical, they hit the horizontal of that like custom support function and it just makes it so easy because what they built is perfect for that, like change a few, whatever we generate the widget.
25:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4155
So their focus is actually incredible.
25:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4201
It was pissing me off because that wasn't our use case and hence features were missing.
25:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4207
But where I'm challenging you is basically doesn't help us honestly.
26:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4223
I don't know why I'm telling you that, but like in general, because you love it, yeah.
26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4234
I can't help it.
26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4251
I spend like 10 minutes.
26:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4255
You just, this is, yeah, you're a startup guy.
26:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4260
I mean, same, same.
26:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4269
I'm a startup guy for past four months.
26:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4273
But
26:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4281
it would be so much easier for you if you literally pick what is the other line in customer support or a specific pattern in customer support, right?
26:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4282
Like vertical industry, whatever, that has some specific interaction, whether it's a hard to guard rails, right?
26:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4310
Like when you're buying it's so much more.
26:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4327
I will have to jump.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4335
I have different call, but like rails are tough, right?
26:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4340
Yeah.
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4350
How do you integrate guard as well?
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4351
Well, that's when you're buying stuff like retail or whatever or where you have some sort of a danger.
26:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4358
Like when you guys were discussing all this PII and all those things, can you figure out how to do that like validation with like UI or whatever?
26:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4377
Yeah.
27:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4405
Like when you focus on few specific problems.
27:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4406
Yeah.
27:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4414
So much better.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4415
You can add.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4418
Your marketing would be so much better and you would pop up in every fucking GPT deep research for like who's this provider?
27:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4421
Yeah.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4444
You're focused.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4445
When you're broad, you're gone.
27:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4447
You will never- With nobody.
27:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4452
Yeah, with nobody.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4457
We were building Geo for a while and that's all about being like ultra niche and then having few of these ultra niche things you solve.
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4460
Anyway.
27:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4486
Thank you, Jan.
27:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4487
We appreciate it.
27:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4490
That was helpful.
27:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4493
So helpful.
27:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4496
See you later.
27:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4498
See you on Thursday.
27:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4501
Next Thursday.
27:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4505
Yeah.
27:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4507
Monday, right?
27:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4508
Wait, hackathon?
27:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4510
I thought it's Monday.
27:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4512
23, no?
27:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4516
Oh, is it?
27:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4518
Wait, isn't that Thursday?
27:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4521
That's Thursday, no?
27:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4525
23, yeah.
27:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4528
Okay, all right.
27:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4530
Oh my God, this is the first time ever that I am...
27:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4533
Yeah, the Oracle, yeah.
27:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4545
Did.
27:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4549
I'll see you later.
27:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4550
See you next week.
28:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4554
Bye.
28:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/14#word-4558

-----

Episode: Natalie (gitlip) & Matt Carey (cloudflare) feedback at pre-hackathon
Listening to Natalie and Matt use Layercode CLI. Will also include some background from Jan.
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12

Free audio post-production by ourphonic.com I'm just talking and you'll hear the boy in the background just for our own records.
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-0
No.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-21
You are being okay.
0:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-22
Just so that we remember we don't miss any bugs.
0:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-26
Oh, that's such a bad you.
0:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-36
This.
0:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-42
Is a great onboarding for Scream Studio.
0:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-43
Oh, I have Scream Studio.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-50
Oh, no, I don't have on those.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-55
Putting the whole thing as well.
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-62
Oh, that's awesome.
0:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-68
Thank you.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-71
Okay.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-73
You're good.
0:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-74
Right.
0:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-76
What's the plan?
0:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-77
What do I need to do?
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-80
Oh, gosh.
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-86
If I have anything confidential on here.
0:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-88
I was gonna close some stuff.
0:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-95
Yeah.
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-101
Let me, let me just, just give me a minute.
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-102
Give me a minute.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-112
I'm looking at Matt.
0:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-116
Matt, that's confidential.
0:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-120
It's a cloud-based thing.
0:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-123
Don't show me that.
0:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-127
It's a New York stock exchange.
0:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-131
Let's go.
0:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-137
Straight on that.
1:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-139
Yeah, this is all good.
1:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-142
Okay.
1:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-147
So we're gonna tell everyone to go to layer code and run the CLI army basically.
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-148
We're gonna tell them.
1:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-164
Yeah.
1:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-168
We can have a sell.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-169
We should now start the CLI.
1:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-174
Start the CLI.
1:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-180
Choose the quick start.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-183
We won't tell you where it is.
1:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-187
Is that fair?
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-194
Okay.
1:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-197
We're gonna go to layer code.
1:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-198
The company is called layer code.
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-204
Oh, it comes up in Google.
1:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-210
That's good.
1:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-216
That is helpful.
1:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-218
Sign up.
1:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-221
Yeah.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-223
He's Doc's first guy.
1:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-224
Oh my God.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-228
This is so scary.
1:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-231
I'm not reading your page.
1:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-235
Something weird about seeing it in passing.
1:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-240
Yeah.
1:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-247
What?
1:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-248
Does that not happen to you?
1:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-249
So, okay, imagine you're a developer who wants to build a voice station.
1:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-255
I feel like that's a good goal.
1:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-268
Is this going to make a project?
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-275
Yeah.
1:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-282
I guess.
1:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-283
What do you expect it to do?
1:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-285
Do you like to build architectural bridges?
1:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-292
Oh, gosh.
1:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-299
Hmm.
1:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-301
But create your first AI voice agent in minutes.
2:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-302
Let's build a production.
2:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-311
Sh-sh-sh-sh-sh.
2:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-315
Turn taking, low latency audio.
2:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-316
That was good.
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-321
Is this recording the right screen?
2:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-324
I think so.
2:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-330
I think it will record what's here.
2:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-333
We'll find out.
2:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-340
We've got the voice as well.
2:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-343
This is why you got the crypto logger.
2:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-349
Simple agent back in the- yeah, speak out any bits which are confusing to the voice recording.
2:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-357
Translating.
2:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-374
Does he have an account?
2:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-375
No.
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-380
Okay.
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-381
So.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-382
It definitely, yeah, I haven't done this recently and it's definitely this feeling of like you've just baked a cake
2:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-383
for someone's wedding.
2:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-403
And everyone's like about to eat it and you're like, sorry,
2:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-406
I don't like it.
3:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-417
And you're like, well, I didn't put enough sugar in.
3:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-421
I should have worn a hairnet.
3:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-431
Not me, but it's not enough.
3:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-437
Come with me.
3:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-443
Okay.
3:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-446
Right.
3:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-447
I can't remember if I have a layer code login.
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-448
Let me check on my phone.
3:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-458
I feel like I can.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-464
I think we talked about the message.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-469
Yeah.
3:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-476
Yeah.
3:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-477
Yeah.
3:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-478
It's in the, it's in the, it's in the machine.
3:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-479
We haven't done it yet.
3:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-489
So that, wait.
3:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-494
It was weird that like I didn't get anything else
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-497
here.
3:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-507
You basically just told me to sign up.
3:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-508
But then...
3:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-516
Oh.
3:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-518
Wait, you got an error.
3:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-519
Hmm.
3:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-524
He said, Please authenticate, and then stuff got garbage collected.
3:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-525
And then it was like...
4:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-535
They tried again?
4:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-540
No, no, no, I haven't verified my account.
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-543
You haven't verified your email, yeah.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-551
Is that because we were saying that we'll just...
4:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-557
They might be able to just...
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-566
No, I think that's a bug.
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-572
Hello.
4:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-578
Hey, John.
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-579
Great to meet you.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-581
Thank you.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-585
Hey, dude.
4:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-587
Oh, cool.
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-589
Good to see you.
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-591
How you doing?
4:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-595
I haven't seen you for a while.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-598
Ages.
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-605
Yeah, you're in our place.
4:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-606
Yes.
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-611
Yeah.
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-612
I'm a.
4:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-613
I'm a.
4:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-615
I'm a.
4:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-617
Nice.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-619
And the engineer, Nasleed.
4:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-620
No, I don't use this.
4:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-624
Hey, nice to meet you.
4:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-629
Would you like a drink?
4:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-634
We've just had some.
4:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-639
Okay, so I get John.
4:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-643
I don't need a bio.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-648
I'm already ahead of generation as you're from.
4:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-653
I'm like, it's quite nice.
4:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-661
What do I do now?
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-666
It's on a snack.
4:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-671
I should tell that we got free produce or just soft.
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-675
Like, or a link to the talks or.
5:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-686
This is great.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-694
I can't log in.
5:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-697
And source files is a big problem.
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-701
Like, I just...
5:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-708
Okay, let me load up the DV.
5:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-711
Okay.
5:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-718
Yeah.
5:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-719
Yeah, it's my user is not found.
5:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-720
Grab any chair.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-727
Oh, she wants at me your email.
5:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-730
Oh, no, I can't spell.
5:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-737
Yeah, I can't.
5:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-742
Cloud layer.
5:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-745
Thank you.
5:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-747
Cloud layer.
5:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-749
Yeah, can you say that again?
5:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-751
Sorry, I just saw that.
5:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-757
All right, what happens then?
5:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-762
Whoa!
5:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-767
Watch what you do!
5:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-768
I have to buy that to Amazon.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-772
I'm sorry.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-779
I'm.
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-781
Sorry.
5:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-782
I think it was confusing for Natalie because she didn't know where to go.
5:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-783
She also had your things on different screens, didn't she?
5:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-797
Because when you have it on the same monitor, the CLI tells you, Thank you for opening.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-807
Sorry.
6:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-824
She had the sticky CLI screen.
6:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-825
Could you go back to the CLI now?
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-831
Some apps it like reopens.
6:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-839
Doesn't it?
6:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-844
Yeah.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-846
No.
6:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-847
I don't know.
6:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-848
Like a lot of them say like you can close this window now.
6:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-851
Okay.
6:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-864
It does need to say no back to the CLI.
6:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-865
Yeah, it does need to say that.
6:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-875
I agree.
6:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-882
Is it?
6:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-884
Why haven't we added that in here yet?
6:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-886
Wait, I'll do my notes up.
6:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-894
Yeah.
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-900
So there's no reason.
6:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-901
Okay.
6:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-905
Wait, there's no reason.
6:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-906
Do I just press enter now?
6:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-910
Not yet.
6:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-916
There's meant to be two options, but right now there's only one.
6:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-918
Okay.
6:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-930
Have you got that, Jack?
6:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-931
What am I making?
6:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-936
What's an automotive assistant?
6:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-940
I have to sing.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-944
I have a dream if you like cars.
6:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-948
We should put like cars.
6:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-956
We should put like car play or something, right?
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-961
Oh, wow.
6:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-970
Okay, I want an executive assistant.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-972
Add your OpenAI API key.
7:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-978
This is going to be tough for me.
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-983
I can, I do maybe have one.
7:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-991
So if you did have like a system profile one, it would have just detected that and use that.
7:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-998
I can find one.
7:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1017
I think it's findable.
7:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1021
Just I don't work on my own ones anymore.
7:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1025
That looks good, doesn't it?
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1034
That looks like one.
7:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1039
Sorry, I mean, no worries.
7:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1043
Do you have something else?
7:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1048
It just sits on your machine anyway, so it's not going anywhere else.
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1053
I'm trying to find what else was.
7:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1066
Is it just at the next JS?
7:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1073
What was the obvious thing?
7:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1080
I'll redirect back.
7:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1085
If possible.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1088
Well, or at least give them...
7:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1090
When I enter my OpenAI key, it's not like hidden.
7:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1096
It's not a password field.
7:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1106
You want to do it again?
7:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1111
Okay.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1117
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1118
Okay.
7:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1121
I want that to be in next week, please.
7:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1122
Because now it just stays there and it looks dodgy.
7:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1131
Wow, this is so...
7:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1141
I can change that really.
8:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1145
And also, like, if it does just stay on my machine, when I press enter, so you should get a pop-up to say this is stored here.
8:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1150
And then it, because it's stored in.
8:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1177
A file on my machine, right?
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1184
I'm guessing.
8:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1190
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1192
Well, it's just stored in, in Veev.
8:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1196
And yeah, so you should show me where it's stored.
8:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1203
That would be here.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1213
So you know we're not sending it to someone else.
8:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1217
Yeah, yeah, basically.
8:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1227
Because otherwise it does feel pretty dodgy.
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1230
You're like, what are you doing with this?
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1237
Yeah.
8:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1245
Got it.
8:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1246
Yeah.
8:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1248
It's like, what's going on here?
8:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1249
Okay, fair enough.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1255
That's a good point.
8:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1258
So what can I help with?
8:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1262
Should I run the same floor?
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1268
Yeah,
8:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1274
yeah, yeah, that would be great.
8:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1275
Please do it and tell them to Jack.
8:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1281
Yeah, yeah, I've already talked to my friend about the Oh, this is fantastic.
8:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1289
The, the loud host.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1303
Oh, yeah.
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1307
Yeah.
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1309
I think we've already chatted before you went to Italy.
8:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1310
Yeah.
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1320
This takes ages.
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1321
Does it actually take this long or do I need to redo this with BORP turned off?
8:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1324
What's it doing with project?
9:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1341
We have lots of other questions.
9:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1346
It is setting up your.env file inside of the.
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1352
File.
9:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1361
Yeah.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1362
It's also running install.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1363
Because I have something to say.
9:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1367
We should tell you what we're doing now.
9:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1373
I can do some tasks.
9:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1381
I feel like when I ran that idea, after about 30 seconds, you do what Matt did and was like, is this broken?
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1386
So maybe we can say like doing this and then as soon as it's done, shows something specific.
9:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1409
Well, just the same focus, the same story.
9:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1427
I think.
9:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1435
If this Name?
9:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1437
One thing I noticed was the CLI now allows the port and it works, but it doesn't allow the URL.
9:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1440
So you have to for anything Vitepay.
9:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1460
You have to change the URL of the dev server.
9:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1467
Yeah, we need to, we're going to document that.
9:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1477
The other thing I noticed, you have for reference, Python in your docs, but it was going dead.
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1486
It's actually not properly linked up.
10:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1504
Which one?
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1510
So I had to build my own.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1512
Into Docker.
10:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1519
Oops.
10:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1521
I was getting.
10:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1522
And someone I saw around France.
10:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1525
I'm getting my python, actually.
10:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1531
Oh, am I crazy?
10:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1536
Python.
10:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1540
Oh, yeah.
10:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1541
See, python back end.
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1543
Is it tunnel?
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1547
The class.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1550
Tunnel scene.
10:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1552
That's quite cool.
10:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1554
You do some ugly stuff then.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1557
We pass that over.
10:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1563
You want to have that tunnel thing to get the tunnel destination.
10:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1567
I don't have a problem.
10:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1579
I've seen that before.
10:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1584
If you haven't.
10:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1588
Who else is doing that?
10:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1591
But is that you who's doing that?
10:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1596
API.
10:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1603
It's very useful.
10:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1604
Cloudflare can't manage to just, I'd love to see it, yeah.
10:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1607
Just think you're on your own.
10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1618
You can just like, okay, is this just running now?
10:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1624
We should be just be running now.
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1634
Okay.
10:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1641
Are you running the tunnel?
10:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1642
Yeah.
10:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1647
We've got on fast.
10:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1648
Those.
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1652
No, no, no, no.
11:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1653
What's the point?
11:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1657
Yo, can you hear me?
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1660
Fast API, fast API, also.
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1665
Yeah.
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1670
Hello, this is Alex.
11:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1671
How can I assist you on your drive today?
11:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1675
Can we go to Mackie's?
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1684
I can hear you loud and clear.
11:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1689
Just to confirm, would you like directions to Mackie's restaurant?
11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1696
Take me to the Golden Arches.
11:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1706
That's right.
11:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1712
They call Mackie's here, not Mickey D's.
11:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1714
I think we still call it Mickey D's.
11:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1721
Got it.
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1729
I'll set the route to Mackie's the Golden Arches.
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1731
Did we manage to talk?
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1740
Okay, so this is the one thing you have to tell everyone in the hackathon is like the background noise stops the turn ending or interrupting.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1745
It seems like the message got cut off.
11:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1771
Could you repeat that last part?
11:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1779
If you go to your Leco dashboard where there was that cool agent, the big dice one, the box one.
11:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1785
This one?
12:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1805
Yeah.
12:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1807
And you go to edit transcriber here.
12:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1808
And you click on turn taking and change that to push to talk and click save.
12:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1815
Well, I got rid of it.
12:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1831
It was default to push to talk.
12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1837
Maybe we should do an app.
12:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1844
It feels half of the magic though.
12:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1850
Like in a noisy room it's going to be awful, but at the same time.
12:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1857
Yeah.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1872
Do you think if we just switched it just to all the hack for them?
12:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1873
Or just tell everyone, hello, I don't.
12:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1888
Think you had...
12:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1895
How can I assist you on your drive today?
12:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1898
I didn't imagine.
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1907
No.
12:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1910
But it is true that in a noisy place it's unusable.
12:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1911
Okay, well this worked.
12:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1922
Was that the same agent ID?
12:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1926
No, QU9.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1932
Is that the same one there?
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1934
No, it's a different one.
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1940
Go back to...
12:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1945
We have more agents.
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1948
Somehow.
12:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1952
Well, ah, this one?
12:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1953
Yeah, change that to 'to talk.'.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1957
Yeah, I agree with Matt's feedback about
12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1963
obfuscating the opening.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1970
It feels dodgy.
12:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1973
It feels dodgy.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1976
Okay, refresh now.
13:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1979
Maybe that's a very good feedback.
13:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1982
I think we had the wrong agent.
13:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1988
Dee-Chat, maybe it works.
13:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1995
Hold fire, hold fire.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-1999
Yeah!
13:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2003
Whoa!
13:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2004
How can I assist you on your drive today?
13:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2005
We haven't done that for a reason.
13:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2014
What do I press?
13:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2021
Hold down that.
13:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2025
I just have to hold this.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2028
Okay, cool.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2034
Um...
13:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2036
Thank you just black.
13:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2037
Can you take me to the nearest park?
13:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2041
Whoa, that was...
13:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2049
Could you clarify what top beans are?
13:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2052
Are you looking for a stop for gas?
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2059
No, I want a park.
13:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2067
No, I want a park.
13:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2072
Got it.
13:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2077
Do you want to find the nearest...
13:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2079
No, no, no, no.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2086
Take me to a park with green spaces.
13:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2090
Okay, this is cool.
13:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2098
Thanks for your patience.
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2102
I'll find you a nearby park with green spaces.
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2106
Is this some sort of joke?
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2115
Is it some sort of joke?
13:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2121
Would you like me to start the navigation?
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2127
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
13:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2135
So I just noticed Matt hit, when you sign up, you get thrown into a default agent that's been created in your dashboard shows that.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2138
Oh, yeah.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2163
And then when you use the CLI, it creates a new agent.
14:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2165
So I think
14:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2177
we should turn off auto agent creation on sign up.
14:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2180
Yeah, I'll give it one.
14:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2190
I agree.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2195
Because it's also very confusing when you open it and you see all of this.
14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2197
It looks cool, but it's like, you're like, I think we'll also distinguish between sign up and be in the CLI versus It's not, and maybe that's when we don't do it.
14:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2212
They don't do it.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2244
We just see online.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2248
I imagine we'll also not want to do it because it's a bit, it's a bit like overwhelming.
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2252
We should take you through some home boarding.
14:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2270
I feel like, yeah, I let the.
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2278
Other turn it off completely.
14:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2285
Yeah, it's gonna be seen.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2290
Can I throw in one thing there?
14:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2295
Yeah.
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2302
Literally looking at your dogs, I was really missing piece of the dogs that would like explain how this whole thing fits together.
14:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2303
Like a very simple diagram of literally you sit in the middle here, here is your back end, we kind of Send the tags to your back, you know, like as dumb as that.
14:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2326
That's what I had to do for our devs because they just couldn't wrap their head around.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2360
So do you do the backend?
15:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2377
No, not really.
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2383
We just like pipe between the front end and the backend and like that fitting together.
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2386
We have that diagram.
15:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2402
It's just not on our website.
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2406
It's in the presentation.
15:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2412
Yeah, I couldn't find anything in the docs, so I keep sending them out.
15:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2416
There's a how layer code works diagram.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2430
There's how layer code works here.
15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2437
Oh yeah, that one.
15:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2443
Could this go before Quickstart?
15:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2447
Because I hate docs which just tell me how to start and not actually what's going on.
15:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2452
Interesting.
15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2469
Because I started this as a Quick Start and immediately saw a thing and just did this and was like, oh.
15:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2470
I'll work it out.
15:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2491
But that is a good point in that I have now no idea what I was doing.
15:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2495
So it would be nice like an introduction.
15:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2512
Like, what is like this?
15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2520
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2525
And that's how the code works.
15:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2529
There's another version of the diagram I've got that tells you what's being sent between the different Places.
15:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2535
Yeah.
15:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2553
Okay.
15:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2554
We have too complicated ones, but if it was something like very simple, like simple boxes, which you can send audio, you can send text, and this is what you will be using.
15:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2555
Okay.
16:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2588
Yeah.
16:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2589
Maybe Modal does that.
16:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2590
That's a great idea.
16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2594
Yeah.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2598
So there's like a homepage for the docs where like there's like a one liner about what it actually does.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2599
This is what we were chatting about, wasn't it?
16:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2619
Like, well, tell you what Layer Code does before we start the docs.
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2628
Yeah.
16:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2641
Yeah.
16:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2642
Where are they kind of adopting?
16:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2643
Because I noticed, Matt, you clicked on docs first.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2649
And some devs, like, read the website.
16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2658
It's a dev tool, isn't it?
16:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2665
Yeah.
16:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2671
And so I was wondering if, like, you have to kind of rehash some of the website in the Quickstart for the developer who has read the website.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2672
You know where it says Start here?
16:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2700
If I could click on that.
16:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2707
And I could get like, where were you thinking?
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2713
What's the start here?
16:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2722
If that was actually clickable and that was the homepage.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2726
Yeah, I tried to click that.
16:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2736
You tried to click that as well?
16:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2742
That's why I said, find me a jacket.
16:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2749
So here.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2757
I said, I want a jacket.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2759
Why
17:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2765
is it, you can't click?
17:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2766
Because it's not a title.
17:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2771
It's not a page.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2776
I think, I think parallel does pretty good dogs as well.
17:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2780
Unless you've seen parallels.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2791
It seems working.
17:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2795
Yeah, the homepage has.
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2798
It's like, I don't know if you want the video, so it, like, I'd stop the video when I put in open AI.
17:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2802
Oh, I see.
17:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2825
Oh, I don't want to save for this.
17:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2828
It needs six minutes.
17:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2836
So I was just gonna wait for that before I carried on and started screen recording.
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2840
I don't know.
17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2856
It works.
17:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2859
It works.
17:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2861
That was really easy.
17:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2863
Cool.
17:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2867
That was really easy.
17:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2868
And you could chat with that.
17:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2872
Yeah, it was really easy.
17:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2878
What do you all think?
17:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2883
I was gonna ask, is that a Commerce module meant to do something?
17:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2888
Because I just spoke, I muted it now, but like, muting doesn't stop it, right?
17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2901
So why is it like doing some.
18:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2916
Of these are your issue, unfortunately.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2923
Like, see, I actually sent a valid message and then the reported engine means.
18:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2929
That you need to No,
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2943
no, no, no, no.
18:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2948
It's not like, yeah.
18:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2952
Is it your node is unsupported?
18:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2956
I will, maybe.
18:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2962
But you know, what version of nodes are you on?
18:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2965
Sorry, it's my search.
18:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2975
21.5 close to my heart.
18:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2979
I tried the e-commerce voice agent and I basically tried to squeeze in this I want a jacket message and nothing happens out there.
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-2984
Thank you.
18:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3008
But like it's still alive.
18:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3010
21.5 for zero.
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3015
So yours is actually...
18:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3018
But the music...
18:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3022
But they should be supported.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3025
That should be supported.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3030
Yeah.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3034
Anything.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3035
What's wrong with that?
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3036
I can't think with that.
18:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3040
Wait, is it saying 20?
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3045
Or anything greater than or equal to 22.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3050
Yeah, but pay on stock.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3058
Yeah.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3063
So it's just 21 for some reason.
18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3064
That's weird.
18:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3071
So I can.
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3073
Current 20.
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3076
Oh, I already said that.
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3078
Why is it interesting?
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3083
Maybe because 21 wasn't an LTS.
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3087
So maybe some people didn't.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3093
I'll have to look at that.
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3098
Yeah, that's good.
19:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3104
That down.
19:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3107
So 21.
19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3109
That's probably not a you issue.
19:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3111
No, 21.21
19:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3117
XX.
19:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3119
Is that supported by a bunch of libraries that you have in the note, the next target?
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3120
Sorry, I thought it was because you'd specified an entity in your log file.
19:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3137
And it was probably this session right now.
19:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3151
There might be those on the ones that should just...
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3159
I don't know.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3169
Okay.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3172
That actually might be wait, that...
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3173
Then.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3179
If I do that, I do mess around in here.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3180
It could well be a me thing.
19:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3190
No, it's not a you thing.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3197
I log out.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3203
Oh, wow.
19:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3206
You get all this.
19:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3208
What's.
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3212
Going on?
19:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3213
Yeah, what is this?
19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3215
Take me to the Golden Arches.
19:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3219
Take me to the Golden Arches.
19:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3225
This is a version of this.
19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3231
You're meant to get these, right?
19:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3237
Let's see, sorry.
19:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3243
Sorry, I was showing you.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3246
Yeah.
19:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3251
Oh, this is from the, this is the McDonald's Run Dead, right?
19:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3252
Yeah, this is, yeah, logs.
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3264
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3269
Yeah, and then, okay.
20:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3275
Oh, this is from the section now.
20:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3279
You could do a tail on it.
20:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3286
I think this might be because we might have added the new things in.
20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3293
I don't know if we always show that.
20:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3307
As I see it, it looks like a log.
20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3315
Yeah, I think it might have been from just a blue button.
20:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3324
Just very recently.
20:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3336
It might have been four records.
20:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3339
I mean, I don't hate it.
20:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3345
I think we're loading a new version of it.
20:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3351
I don't hate it.
20:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3360
Okay, then we reconnected to Rhyme.
20:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3364
And Rhyme was ready again.
20:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3370
So Rhyme disconnected and reconnected.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3375
I had another thing.
20:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3380
Yeah.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3384
I can't remember.
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3385
I think it was in the layer code login.
20:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3388
I couldn't make it show me my password.
20:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3397
When I lost the password, I remember where it happened.
20:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3405
I didn't see it again.
20:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3415
Yeah, there's no way to like hide or show the password.
20:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3420
Yeah, when I was pasting, I didn't.
20:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3431
Know what I was pasting.
20:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3438
Oh, really?
20:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3443
Yeah,
20:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3445
the objects.
20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3446
I need to still get the...
20:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3448
Oh, here we go.
20:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3454
Look, typing it in properly.
20:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3458
I don't want to drop eyes.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3463
That one came through.
21:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3469
And then I was typing it from.
21:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3473
My phone, so I didn't put my password manager up on the screen before.
21:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3480
The final line, what was that one about the password time?
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3494
That was a good shout, actually.
21:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3505
So did you guys still have a 30-minute wait from you?
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3511
It didn't have a, like, one of those eye buttons to show me if I was typing in the right password or not.
21:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3522
Here we go, let's do the straight web hook request.
21:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3545
Yeah, it's just, like, blocked out.
21:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3555
Oh, crap.
21:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3561
again,, or wordse, so you could see at least you were tying right I did a web without Yeah, well it's.
21:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3563
Tying, but tasting it from something else.
21:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3584
It's pretty weird because my paste manager doesn't actually if I copy anything from passwords, it doesn't I mean, it copies that, but it doesn't copy anything from it doesn't show in here.
21:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3591
So when I paste it, am I am I pasting and your k case.
21:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3624
It is hustle because you go on my pasting email saw, but yeah, it was a pay, verified that.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3638
you could have saw it.
21:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3657
Yeah., yeah, Okay.
21:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3662
So we should have an option in then.
21:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3665
I think it's pretty down at the.
21:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3673
Top like a little where get the eyein I.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3680
to see the, the plain text on the password.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3689
Oh yeah, yeah.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3698
That's a pretty normal thing.
22:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3701
Yeah, I did pretty common now.
22:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3706
Yeah, it's fine now because this is saved.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3712
Okay.
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3720
Give me a check your reset.
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3721
Um, can we, except I want a jabber once your, once it's working to try and do something to create.
22:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3727
Yeah, we need to stop being a bad event.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3747
When you're muted, long time extensive test to work.
22:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3756
Right.
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3765
When you're not on that, that seems like I'm testing here.
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3766
But do I end the session?
22:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3777
The actual experience is, I don't want to tell you.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3783
That's like a month too long.
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3793
I want to open this.
22:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3799
I just kind of want to see the chaos unfold.
22:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3804
Oh, there.
22:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3814
It is a bit confusing, right?
22:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3816
Because you have this one.
22:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3822
No, it's a rhyme error.
22:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3827
Again.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3832
And then you have this one.
22:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3833
So you'd send a response from a web request.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3839
And then immediately I've Rhyme connection closed.
22:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3848
Can I change error?
22:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3855
Hello.
23:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3859
New sentence parameter.
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3860
All right, English.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3863
This is just connecting to the same one.
23:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3866
How would I change this?
23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3874
I'm going to...
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3879
Hello.
23:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3882
Oh, please don't.
23:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3883
There's no...
23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3886
Okay, I'm going to send Rhyme this message.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3888
Do I feel like...
23:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3896
The bug is that Rhyme died when we tried to send the audio response.
23:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3900
Yeah.
23:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3914
We reconnected to Rhyme, but we didn't work out that we haven't generated the Rhyme
23:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3915
response.
23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3930
Okay, go to your new product.
23:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3931
This is that thing, right?
23:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3937
That's it.
23:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3942
No, we haven't.
23:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3944
So if I go to this one and I go to a different agent,
23:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3947
I only know this because Damian says something about an agent ID.
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3961
So maybe I'm cheating.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3973
Ryan die.
23:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3977
I think I'm cheating because I would have taken a lot longer to say that.
23:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3979
Go ahead.
23:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3994
You're just too clever for me.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-3996
Let's say the agent's responding to you and while it's doing that, you ground dies and then it just becomes fine.
24:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4002
They don't notice.
24:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4023
And let's say you're speaking to the agent and then Ryan was randomly dies and then you can notice why the agent died when we sent the text to be spoken to Ryan.
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4026
I'm confused, darling.
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4059
You don't know wheels was falling down.
24:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4062
So I've CDD2.
24:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4069
Yeah, we don't really know.
24:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4072
This directory.
24:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4077
And then it says in a nutshell in the same directory.
24:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4079
Quite hard to know.
24:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4090
I'm guessing it.
24:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4094
Hi, how can I help them?
24:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4097
Yo, how are you?
24:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4103
Is it the outside one?
24:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4107
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4112
I sent this text to the CDF at the same point.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4115
And I haven't got any of it.
24:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4126
So I'm gonna write this down.
24:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4133
That's right.
24:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4139
That's such a good point.
24:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4141
And it needs to have a question.
24:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4146
JT.
24:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4153
So it's not just not speaking.
24:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4154
It's literally like you should know how long it should have.
24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4160
Yeah.
24:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4171
Okay, so that changes it to a the demo one.
24:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4172
When it died halfway through the demo.
24:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4182
Did it work?
24:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4189
Yeah, I think so.
24:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4192
You send people to the response team.
24:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4196
Hey, how you doing?
25:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4203
You don't actually know what you're running.
25:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4207
I don't see it.
25:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4214
I think that's okay.
25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4218
Yeah, sorry.
25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4222
It was also a question, wasn't it?
25:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4224
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4231
So you run the tunnel inside.
25:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4234
It's a very unhappy one.
25:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4240
I don't think there'll be an issue.
25:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4245
So do I have to.
25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4252
I think I've seen it.
25:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4257
I just have to find it.
25:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4262
Yeah, those one here as well, by the way, on the CD.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4268
Really a confusion.
25:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4280
We didn't say, do you know that one?
25:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4283
Because we say like, I see in the same directory, but I think the pinhole is tunnel, but it's not clear.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4291
If you do it from here.
25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4312
You just see didn't see to put it off.
25:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4318
You were in before you see the video.
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4327
Okay.
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4335
I know I would not be getting back on that.
25:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4336
Okay.
25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4346
Maybe we're gonna expose you.
25:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4347
It's gonna go away though, actually, if we get rid of it.
25:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4352
But that's what it is.
25:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4364
That's my proof of concept.
25:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4369
Yeah, the connection.
25:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4374
I don't.
26:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4377
Oh, no.
26:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4379
You don't know how I'm gonna connect.
26:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4381
Here's the bug.
26:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4388
Go on.
26:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4391
When you're creating agent by default.
26:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4393
Yeah.
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4399
Yeah.
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4400
It's using our backend.
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4401
This is.
26:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4405
I clicked on this to be like, can it be like, but now I have to install the project.
26:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4407
Okay.
26:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4426
That puts you big, too, because you don't.
26:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4427
You might not want to do that.
26:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4435
Yeah, I was like, can I not?
26:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4442
So do this real quick.
26:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4449
Okay.
26:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4454
I'm gonna just like, yeah, click the X.
26:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4455
Yeah, yeah.
26:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4463
So after jacket for me.
26:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4465
Go forward.
26:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4470
Okay.
26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4472
March into the online.
26:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4473
Yeah.
26:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4477
So you have these different.
26:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4478
What's the worst that can happen?
26:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4483
Oh, okay.
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4489
So do a manual setup.
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4491
Okay.
26:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4496
So you need to join changes a lot.
26:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4497
Because if you don't, I think you need to give it a webhook URL.
26:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4505
I think it's like a macro.
26:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4519
Okay.
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4525
Which is my like mismatch or something.
26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4526
With Cloud 30.
26:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4533
Yeah.
26:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4536
Oh, no.
26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4537
No, we're good.
26:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4539
We're good.
26:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4542
If I need to have someone from Cloud 30.
26:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4544
Well, I don't have.
27:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4553
Yeah, it's not a message on.
27:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4557
Well, I don't have.
27:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4563
Yeah, it's the tunnel.
27:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4567
It's when you run.
27:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4571
It's like how, like, so just like, I think the URL is like.
27:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4575
Cut those away.
27:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4588
This one.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4591
Yeah.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4593
So much cat days.
27:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4594
Then I feel unsure, like, do I...
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4598
Sorry.
27:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4605
And then I feel unsure if I like click on this.
27:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4606
Like it's ready.
27:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4617
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4620
Is it not gonna work either?
27:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4624
Go back to...
27:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4630
Actually, I'm not sure.
27:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4633
One of the other things.
27:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4637
Yeah.
27:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4642
So actually no go to the...
27:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4643
Oh, like local wants to be...
27:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4649
Okay, go ahead and see that.
27:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4655
That is not clear at all.
27:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4661
It.
27:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4667
Would be nice if this name corresponded to the name that I set up in the template.
27:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4668
Where broken on that.
27:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4685
You know, in the template, I called it like an auto agent or something.
28:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4689
An auto automotive existence.
28:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4703
Oh, I see.
28:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4707
It'd be nice if this name that.
28:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4710
You selected in the template.
28:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4717
Yeah, it'd be nice if this name was like that.
28:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4722
Because then it would be able.
28:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4732
Then I would be like visually.
28:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4738
This is my age.
28:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4744
I was kind of falling through the cracks here.
28:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4748
When I look at the dogs and try to explain it to people, there is this...
28:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4757
It's all very complicated.
28:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4773
There's this job.
28:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4777
There's a lot going on.
28:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4780
I'm trying to understand how.
28:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4785
Yeah.
28:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4790
So if you look at this one, for example, this one, I'm going to show you.
28:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4791
So forget it.
28:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4807
Yeah.
28:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4810
So you need to add API.
28:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4811
This is what helps you.
28:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4817
Any other drinks?
28:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4822
Thanks, no one.
28:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4825
I think we're good.
28:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4828
I'm having a beer.
28:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4832
There's loads of drinks in there.
28:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4836
I think we're good.
28:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4842
Thank you very much.
28:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4846
Yeah, it's not bad.
28:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4850
Wireless.
28:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4854
You mean a better internet?
28:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4855
So there's just a massive roadie.
28:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4860
Let's go.
28:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4866
So.
28:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4868
API/agent.
29:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4869
How would I know that?
29:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4870
You don't know what necessarily changing in the project.
29:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4875
Because you did it right.
29:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4884
So we're meant to be the best.
29:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4889
You would know.
29:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4896
We've got it in our last.
29:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4899
We haven't got to do that question.
29:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4905
Ah, okay.
29:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4912
But the Production you will.
29:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4914
So in the tunnel here and then you're like, I don't know, print.
29:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4919
Yeah, would you ever add it here.
29:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4932
As you're guessing I was trying to say, yeah, because like, that's.
29:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4939
Not quite nice, but like.
29:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4951
Yeah, oh, it's just slower.
29:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4956
And then you don't document that well, you're basically like everything.
29:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4961
Yeah, right, let's have a guy now.
29:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4972
So go, go to the real.
29:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4979
Yeah, yeah.
29:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4985
Yeah.
29:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4987
This is Hartford.
29:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4988
You're exactly right.
29:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4991
How can I assist you right now?
29:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-4994
Everyone else.
29:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5001
you click on the icon you did, Okay.
29:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5003
agent he got the tele It should.
29:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5011
Be good
30:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5018
up couldul youclare fi engine management.
30:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5020
Ho's that work?
30:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5026
There isnt hole because they say I'm just playing.
30:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5029
Go for it, try and see how.
30:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5038
Right should do the communication.
30:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5045
Well, that You mean.
30:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5050
Over from the back end, right?
30:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5054
Yeah, basically it's using your rest.
30:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5060
I think that's running in a spark.
30:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5066
Is this a spark?
30:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5073
Yeah, it's a spark.
30:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5077
The event shapes.
30:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5081
Yeah, thanks.
30:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5084
Okay, I'm holding and speaking.
30:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5086
I know now, but I wouldn't know.
30:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5091
Yeah.
30:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5098
Building that like literally again because it's really simple in a way, right?
30:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5099
Yeah, I don't think this is working.
30:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5112
That button was cool, though.
30:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5119
Oh, it's recording from my phone.
30:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5124
Where's my phone?
30:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5130
Okay.
30:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5133
And then what we're going to explain to people in the hackathon is then if you go hello hello hello not just the rest docs and the ask your age actually how you would use nice refresh how you would use yeah.
30:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5134
As in this words yeah okay that's why that feels like the natural thing.
30:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5176
Kind of an explanation without so let's see like you can do something thematic.
30:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5190
To open every single model figure out.
31:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5204
Which one I need right now and now have you restart Have a little.
31:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5211
Diagram that like explains the stuff.
31:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5225
Basically reload this.
31:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5231
Page.
31:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5234
For this bar, when there is a now client in my backend, you have.
31:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5235
To hold down this button.
31:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5249
Yo, hello.
31:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5254
How are you?
31:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5256
And then, so it's like the inverse of.
31:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5267
So we're going to suggest everyone does that.
31:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5270
So, you know, for sure.
31:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5278
I was like, we haven't seen it.
31:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5283
Yeah, I'm saying no.
31:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5290
Which is the document that explains we still know bueno.
31:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5294
Yeah, yeah.
31:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5304
I tried to use the demo one.
31:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5306
Pick out the whole, it's actually the.
31:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5313
So that's in the demo project trying to change the agent ID to be the default one.
31:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5320
I'm not facing any challenges.
31:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5337
I'm just in a noisy room.
31:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5342
And we updated the webhook URL to match the cloud for total one.
31:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5348
What's happening in the webflow cloud?
32:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5361
Oh, never mind.
32:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5367
Very abstract, very high level.
32:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5370
Yeah.
32:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5375
Which is, because you have some deals.
32:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5376
That need to be closed.
32:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5383
That's the newest one.
32:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5388
Can you close all the deals?
32:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5392
I think your webflow secret needs to be updated.
32:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5398
Okay, let's talk about that.
32:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5407
Which way do I have to update it?
32:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5412
When I'm not on my own, you.
32:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5420
Have to copy-paste from the dashboard.
32:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5427
Oh yeah, I can copy this.
32:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5433
I can get this.
32:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5439
Yeah.
32:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5443
This one doesn't change.
32:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5444
Okay, good.
32:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5448
Yeah.
32:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5450
Okay, I need to copy.
32:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5451
There's nothing.
32:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5456
Because that wasn't me.
32:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5458
I said about you guys, but I don't think there is.
32:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5462
That's okay.
32:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5473
This is fine.
32:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5475
We deserve that anyway.
32:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5478
No, no, no, no, no.
32:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5482
But you want me to copy out the
32:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5487
My one was here.
32:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5495
Um, it was really helpful to explain to them that this is not correct.
32:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5499
Basically you guys call out for, the transmission to audio and then what are backend handles?
32:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5513
This is what we own is purely hello.
32:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5529
And then we do whatever.
33:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5537
Hello, this is Astra.
33:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5542
How can I assist you?
33:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5546
Yeah, this is much better.
33:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5551
Thank you very much.
33:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5556
Especially on the handshakes and things like that.
33:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5560
You're welcome, Juanita.
33:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5568
What can I assist you with?
33:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5571
Juanita?
33:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5577
Juanita?
33:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5578
Oh wait, miss trans guide you at the start.
33:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5579
Hello.
33:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5588
This is really time.
33:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5589
I just want to see how many.
33:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5593
Times I can do this.
33:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5600
Um, this can be in the same button again, but doesn't have to be.
33:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5605
This has to be.
33:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5619
Yo, this is Astra.
33:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5623
How can I assist you on your try?
33:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5627
This is sick.
33:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5635
It does these things.
33:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5638
Transcribes it.
33:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5642
So you have to hold down.
33:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5644
No, it's like, is that not working?
33:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5650
Oh, is that working?
33:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5657
Like, yeah, simple high level.
33:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5661
If you actually want to understand things.
33:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5666
Are you refreshing?
33:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5673
Oh, it is.
33:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5676
I felt like the button needs to change color, doesn't it?
33:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5679
There's just no feedback.
33:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5690
Yeah, yeah.
33:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5694
The green is not that way.
33:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5696
Yo, kind of like that.
33:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5702
And the flow of all this works, right?
33:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5707
And it's very obvious as well.
33:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5715
All the dogs, they're basically covered.
33:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5721
It sounds like you're not getting the feedback you expected from the button.
33:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5727
Can you describe what you see people are trying to adjust?
33:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5740
So we're actually going to replace this with the quickie.ui that you saw.
34:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5751
Boom.
34:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5764
Yeah.
34:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5765
Just because it's, you just know for.
34:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5766
That by trying something.
34:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5773
Well, this is exciting.
34:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5777
What can I do now to play with the demo?
34:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5781
So something like that.
34:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5791
Have you tried, like, editing your quick start repo code, like.
34:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5795
But like you...
34:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5806
Ooh, can I add...
34:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5809
No, that's...
34:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5813
This is a good next challenge.
34:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5815
Yeah, can you go in here?
34:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5821
Can I add myself a tool?
34:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5827
Yeah, add your own tool.
34:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5833
But now it's just AISDK.
34:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5838
Now you're just AISDK.
34:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5843
Okay.
34:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5847
This is the story of my life now.
34:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5848
Call on your phone over here as well.
34:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5856
Yeah, I want to change the prompt.
34:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5864
I just want to make sure I go.
34:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5871
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5879
Is that okay?
34:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5882
It's 100%.
34:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5885
It's a voice record.
34:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5887
What?
34:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5891
Just if I don't know.
34:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5892
No, no, no.
34:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5897
If we start voice recording.
34:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5900
Yeah, I don't know.
34:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5905
Just because I want to make sure we don't miss a cause.
34:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5909
So trying to write down as much as I can.
34:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5921
Um, five hours.
34:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5931
Is it okay if I throw it them?
35:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5934
Yeah, I just throw it in.
35:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5942
There's some, this amazing, like, basically like documentation.
35:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5948
No, it's just generate a mermaid stuff, but it's basically how I explained it to devs, how it works.
35:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5956
Wow.
35:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5975
Okay.
35:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5976
This is really useful.
35:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5977
It's like whole Secret.
35:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5981
It's so...
35:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5985
You feel so handicapped knowing how it's built, trying to explain to people how it works.
35:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-5987
Because I just don't understand the bits that people put in.
35:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6003
Hello, this is Hellman.
35:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6014
How can I assist you on your boat ride today?
35:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6018
Hello.
35:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6028
That looks really hadn't thought so.
35:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6029
Hey, it's just lots of good execution on it.
35:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6035
Can we go left, please?
35:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6044
So what would you like help with?
35:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6049
You meant to speak like a pirate.
35:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6056
Wow, this is a maybe.
35:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6063
Yeah, sure.
35:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6068
I want to turn on.
35:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6070
Is that the, yeah, that's the config file.
35:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6075
Oh, that's for the funny prompt, isn't it?
36:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6083
Yeah, the prompt and the welcome.
36:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6091
It's kind of saying video a bunch of different things here.
36:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6097
You could just replace this with your own system.
36:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6108
Oh, no, thank you.
36:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6117
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6121
No, I get that.
36:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6124
Yeah, right.
36:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6128
I think I'm a bit stuck on like where to go next because I.
36:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6130
Like...
36:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6144
What about now?
36:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6145
So like I did everything it told me to do and then I'm like, okay, I've spoken to it.
36:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6148
What should I do?
36:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6167
We don't give you any kind of suggestions, do we?
36:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6171
I wonder if we should have, yeah, I do.
36:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6181
Something a little more complex.
36:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6190
Walk them through it.
36:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6195
So yeah, then I don't know should say it as well, right, on the output.
36:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6199
I'd say the next thing people probably do is put in a tool.
36:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6214
But then the other option is you've got is make your own UI.
36:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6227
Now there is It was so sorry.
37:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6240
One thing I really dislike, I needed to remove it immediately from the demo, these weird waveforms, the synth stuff.
37:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6247
It was nice to know that something's happening, but then I very quickly got tired of it.
37:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6267
Do you think we should put in a customer facing UI example?
37:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6284
Because we used to have this being very simple customer facing UI.
37:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6296
Because when you put it in front of customers, you don't want this to you.
37:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6308
No, that's why I didn't...
37:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6323
It needed to be clean and basically resemble ChatGPT as much as you can.
37:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6328
I feel like we could have like dev mode, customer mode, switch in this.
37:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6342
One thing I'll say is now that I know how ours looks, when I use that one, I feel handicapped because I cannot type the text.
37:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6356
That's like the, especially when you have a room full of people, you try to say something twice, you just can't get it over the line.
37:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6382
You just want to put that thing in and you can't.
37:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6408
I would really love to have that text box in there.
37:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6419
Not that I know you can.
37:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6430
We, yeah, we got, yeah, we should.
37:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6436
So text box and then customer facing UI toggle.
38:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6443
So Natalie, you can, we have got an agents MD file here.
38:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6452
So you could like launch Codex or GlaCode if you did, if you do use those, for instance, and then say like, I can now turn it into an agent that does this.
38:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6464
Okay.
38:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6497
And then it would, it could change like the UI, and it's got all the VaLidAteR code docs in there, so it should know how to use layer code.
38:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6498
Nice.
38:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6527
Cool.
38:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6528
But yeah, this would be the point where there would be some specific voice.
38:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6529
We made it too easy.
38:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6543
You've done everything you need to do now.
38:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6548
You've got a voice AI assistant.
38:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6556
Nice.
38:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6562
Cool.
38:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6563
Features here.
38:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6564
I'm about to have my.
38:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6566
I left.
38:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6571
Every time.
38:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6573
Yeah, you didn't need to say anything over there.
39:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6575
Yeah.
39:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6584
Has Jan told you what it's about?
39:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6585
Solid State.
39:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6592
No.
39:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6594
What are you filming?
39:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6595
E-commerce voice agents.
39:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6599
Okay.
39:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6602
Okay.
39:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6603
Is this the enemy?
39:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6604
No, it's only, we are actually using layer code, but it's a little bit more work than that.
39:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6608
I think that's the, that's the hard thing about voice is like the demo is quite easy to, to, production.
39:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6626
Yeah, in a minor heart attack, I was stress testing our database and discovered that our B95 is like almost 20 seconds on some searches.
39:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6646
So I need to tell people like a whole fairy tale while it's searching.
39:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6671
I have no idea what I'm going to do.
39:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6685
That is the crazy thing, isn't it?
39:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6694
As fast as the voice AI is, if it's hitting your legacy database and stuff.
39:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6701
That's why I keep obsessing.
39:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6716
I have this like little framework in my head of different patterns for the voice agents where literally
39:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6721
I would love to have it simpler to basically combine something that's fast and slow and keeps the conversation going, which is like one pattern in one quadrant, right?
39:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6739
But you ultimately want to have how that fast agent, if you have two agents, fast and slow, like fast, how much autonomy does the fast agent have?
40:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6768
Should it be just doing the chattering?
40:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6796
Should it literally be just checking in on the bigger agent and just say, oh, I'm still looking.
40:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6803
Oh, I can't find a piece of funding.
40:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6821
You know, like code code, how it's like gibberish at the bottom.
40:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6829
Like, could it literally do that?
40:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6841
And then the next level is it literally can do like speculative drafting when.
40:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6847
You really get autonomy because like in.
40:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6861
Flashlight is pretty good and you can have it.
40:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6868
And then as soon as it finishes, like, you can still run your slow model and that slow model can then issue in correction where if you know, you can risk it, you can basically, oh, sorry, I just checked.
40:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6877
We don't have the size Z.
40:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6917
Right.
40:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6923
Which is still okay.
40:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6924
So I'm basically thinking about this, like, if there could be a few patterns which are around autonomy and like how deeply you parallelize these like different architectures, but like they'll be, they will make it so much easier to build something that's both smart, but also like fluent, then it keeps the conversation going.
40:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6928
But in, I think the thinking patterns why it makes so much sense.
41:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6983
Yeah, but it's really how do you integrate it too?
41:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-6996
That's the biggest problem because then you can end up in garbage from both and how do you consolidate?
41:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7006
And I think that's where I'm, how do you think F.
41:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7025
Yeah.
41:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7036
Remember how we were looking at voice stuff?
41:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7037
Yeah.
41:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7045
There's the two streams that we're talking about.
41:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7046
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7054
You kind of want one.
41:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7057
Yeah.
41:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7062
Like doing stuff like that.
41:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7063
Did you, did you do like, did real time API in chat while the tool calls?
41:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7068
It does, doesn't it?
41:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7084
I think so.
41:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7088
Yeah.
41:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7091
You can interrupt, but the tool call still runs in the backend.
41:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7092
Um, so there would be more, it.
41:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7104
Would basically be, you're playing with real time out.
41:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7111
Yeah.
41:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7120
Yeah.
41:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7121
It would be more similar to that kind of shadow conversation that the FastNLP keeps the conversation.
41:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7122
You would literally prompt it to speak more slowly and describe what the tool is that currently running, which is very hard to do with normal models because they are basically tuned to send out a tool call and only then assist that message.
41:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7139
Exactly.
42:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7183
So you need to actually, the only way to wire it up is to have a fake like tool call pre call, which then pushes the model to have to call more tools and makes it more complicated, fails more.
42:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7184
So that's why I kept thinking like two tools are in a way simpler.
42:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7224
Sorry, two models are simpler.
42:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7238
But yeah, it's really messy to integrate as well.
42:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7243
It's an X4 nearly.
42:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7252
Yeah, it's nearly explosive.
42:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7256
Do you have, is that your laptop?
42:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7260
Yeah, my AirDrop.
42:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7267
Okay, that's AirDrop.
42:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7270
Why did you look at it using RealTime?
42:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7273
Yeah.
42:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7281
So I have like two screen recordings for AirDrop.
42:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7282
I hope there's something somewhere useful.
42:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7291
Yeah, those for like side by side.
42:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7297
Brilliant.
42:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7304
Yeah.
42:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7305
Yeah.
42:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7306
Why did you pick that course?
42:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7307
Thank you.
42:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7313
I spoke to them and I was really pissed at opening either day because
42:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7315
I just could not define tools at all, even though I was for indoxia.
42:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7329
So I realized like ultimately the magic.
43:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7343
What you get here?
43:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7350
Because anything meaningful will like passing the payload, you need to hit the transport layer.
43:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7354
And at that point, this is even secured and everything.
43:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7369
Because that- oh, just think we're in the same Wi-Fi style.
43:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7379
And we'll probably do it.
43:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7390
And you're on a theme event.
43:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7395
Providing all the tool that you need.
43:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7401
Yeah, send it to me.
43:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7408
I'll send it.
43:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7413
Okay, I'm sending it to MacBook Pro.
43:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7416
We'll find out if it's you.
43:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7423
Exactly.
43:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7429
What is it?
43:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7430
Yay, it's me.
43:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7433
You are MacBook Pro.
43:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7436
I'll be in the library anyway.
43:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7440
Okay.
43:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7446
But we will have this breakage and we'll probably fucked.
43:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7447
And then there'll be another one.
43:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7457
And then he was like, well, you will have your own backet.
43:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7463
So we actually know that works.
43:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7475
Worst thing that happens is that audio goes away, but you still have this.
43:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7481
So they felt like way more roles.
44:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7495
So we were just talking earlier today about how we add in real time in Gemini live and then give people the ability to test those and then transition to those when they get reliable or whatever for that specific context.
44:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7502
We got another person who's doing tire
44:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7543
change bookings for German also.
44:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7550
You know, the world of voice there.
44:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7555
Yeah.
44:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7562
And they were saying that the number plate and the number in German with real-time ADI is just not accurate enough.
44:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7563
Although it seems to be okay in English.
44:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7584
For us.
44:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7592
That was like their biggest problem.
44:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7594
And
44:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7600
it's interesting.
44:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7601
It feels like it's just, it's going to get better.
44:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7603
But then in all these scenarios, it doesn't cut quite yet.
44:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7613
It's fascinating because like, never felt like it's not accurate enough until we were using deep Cramelot in layer code before we were using open AI real time photo testing and 11 labs on the their platform.
45:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7624
And that was literally picking up very clearly people speaking in Spanish.
45:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7661
Eight minutes away from me.
45:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7673
Open your ears, we'll get it.
45:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7678
But 11 Labs has their own transcription when I was using 11 Labs agents.
45:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7684
Yeah, I think it was pretty good in a noisy, like it wasn't too noisy, but it was literally picking up a Spanish colleague.
45:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7698
I was super freaked out about what it's writing and I realized it's picking up his chat.
45:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7722
This is hell, man.
45:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7739
How can I assist you on your boat ride today?
45:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7743
It was picking on the Spanish before.
45:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7753
What's on the front page of BBC today?
45:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7760
On the ground stuff, but it was picking up Picking up the, picking up your earlier language and writing.
45:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7768
What's on the front page of BBC News?
45:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7787
Is this like accuracy?
45:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7795
Right now I was sitting in front of my laptop and I couldn't say I want to check it.
45:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7799
What would you like?
45:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7818
It was literally impossible.
45:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7822
I feel like we need to, yeah.
45:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7826
So, so what's the top story on the front page of BBC News?
45:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7833
They were the next one on our list.
46:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7846
They've got a lower word error rate.
46:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7854
I think the problem is the live, the transcriptions don't come through live.
46:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7861
As live as they do.
46:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7874
Oh baby, can you sign the ticket for me?
46:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7879
Members of Gaza City.
46:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7888
At least 27 people have been reported killed in the most violent company since Israeli troops withdrew.
46:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7892
Would you like to know more about this?
46:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7909
No, no, thank you.
46:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7917
Welcome to the API.
46:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7921
API, did you hear that?
46:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7925
Oh, one of my friends is just.
46:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7930
A really good search API.
46:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7937
One of my friends teaching coding class once.
46:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7942
He always used BBC as the example off, like, you know, doing like flex boxes and stuff.
46:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7950
And then he was like, okay, guys, let's look at the BBC.
46:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7967
Oh, by the way, there's been a terrorist attack.
46:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7979
Okay, so everyone knew that there was like a terrorist attack in London.
46:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-7988
Like, what?
47:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8001
Like, in the class was like in London.
47:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8003
Just like, oh, no, no, no.
47:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8011
Indian.
47:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8017
Should we ask you to set...
47:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8018
Cool.
47:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8024
Did you send it over, Matt?
47:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8025
Can you
47:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8031
look up layer code?
47:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8033
Thank you.
47:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8037
And can you see what they do?
47:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8039
And can you summarize some of the DoFs for me?
47:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8046
Explain like I'm five.
47:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8056
Yeah.
47:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8060
Yeah.
47:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8061
Can I help you with specifics?
47:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8062
Yeah, it works.
47:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8068
Brilliant.
47:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8071
Yeah.
47:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8072
The layer code voice platform.
47:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8073
Can you like...
47:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8078
I've got you, got you, got you.
47:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8081
You're recording.
47:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8088
You're doing far training.
47:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8090
Yeah.
47:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8094
So we need five autumns.
47:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8095
I said fine, £20 an hour.
47:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8100
Come on.
47:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8106
Layer comes to voice app.
47:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8108
Perfectly check this out for creating the lake.
47:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8113
Every time I try to do it, I'm repeating this month.
47:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8121
I'm telling you, search is most fun thing ever.
47:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8132
Did you?
47:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8141
Yes.
48:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8143
Because it's kind of good.
48:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8144
I just hooked it up to parallel.
48:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8149
But it's not set up here.
48:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8156
Oh, okay.
48:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8162
With like, the little MCP, the deep.
48:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8164
Grams has not got high enough to switch it up.
48:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8171
Well, like you say, it might be better in some situations, but like ensuring responsive voice.
48:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8181
These are all my previous attempts to say a joke.
48:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8197
What infrastructure is layer code built on?
48:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8207
All the previous ones went check it, check it.
48:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8214
This is good.
48:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8223
Tell me an unknown fact about them.
48:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8226
So wait, you want to go on to them.
48:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8233
Layer code is built on cloudflare infrastructure.
48:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8242
This is so valuable.
48:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8249
That's a rubbish fact.
48:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8253
I want something saucy.
48:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8257
Jam.
48:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8261
This is, guys, this is no help for you.
48:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8262
So you're saying you're going to be fixed on Monday?
48:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8271
Yeah, we're looking for it.
48:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8281
No, I still want something juicy.
48:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8286
Give me some controversy or something about Damien.
48:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8292
Whoa.
48:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8300
There's a couple looking in there.
48:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8301
What would be fixed on Monday if.
49:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8307
That was, like, no, it definitely can't be.
49:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8314
No, no, no, no.
49:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8322
No, no, no, no, no, no.
49:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8326
Find his name, search it.
49:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8332
See what he's done.
49:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8337
It shouldn't be sneaky.
49:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8341
The devs are now stuck and they cannot build our frontend.
49:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8345
I think I posted in a group today.
49:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8356
Yeah, we haven't been parallel is way too good.
49:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8364
It's not like so as an API, it's terrifying.
49:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8373
We basically will have a lot of services behind.
49:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8382
We're searching for controversy about you.
49:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8391
Yeah, it's finding shit.
49:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8397
Man, it's not ending shit.
49:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8401
That's something.
49:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8406
It's just making stuff up.
49:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8408
Mismatch of AI models.
49:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8413
This voice actor, you idiot.
49:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8417
Yeah, you had to deal with the voice actor, you idiot.
49:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8422
Literally, that's why I was with you in the docks.
49:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8433
I was trying to build it from the on.
49:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8443
I need to hard code.
49:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8452
These were some controversy about Damien.
50:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8457
Never respond with Damien.
50:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8463
Where did that even come from?
50:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8467
Stop spreading rumors about your creator.
50:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8473
There's another company I'm not stock and cannot implement.
50:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8479
Yeah.
50:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8488
Why did that?
50:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8489
We need to implement our voice agent.
50:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8492
Because they can't decide the...
50:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8499
It got you confused with Damien Herz.
50:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8504
Oh, got it.
50:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8511
We need to authorize handshake and everything and there needs to be some forward headers if the...
50:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8514
This is the metadata thing, basically.
50:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8531
So, yeah, we're coming back to it.
50:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8537
This is where it got to.
50:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8544
Basically, they flagged like, but we can do that too.
50:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8550
I'm going to expose that.
50:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8560
Okay.
50:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8565
We already have the session.
50:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8566
I mean, it's not the hard bit, but there, there, we had already thought that through and there is a metadata field in the database table for sessions.
50:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8571
It's just not settable via the API.
50:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8599
So guys, I think we're going to be enough just to have that.
50:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8606
I would say this works.
50:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8619
I think you've done really well.
50:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8624
We will not get through.
50:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8630
It's pretty awesome.
50:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8635
To our best.
50:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8638
I'm still slightly confused with the whole local setup.
51:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8641
What is it?
51:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8650
Or what would you imagine I do with this local tools?
51:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8653
The local thing is that me actually making my own project.
51:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8664
And
51:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8675
I think that's.
51:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8676
The end state.
51:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8679
Me turning this project and creating something I could use in another project of mine.
51:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8682
So the end state would then be, Yeah.
51:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8697
Okay, so if we added- Was this like more of a demo of like.
51:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8705
This is how you- Yeah.
51:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8719
Under the webhook, you can advance and you could set any header.
51:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8724
How to use it?
51:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8736
I guess what's the practice is the local setup.
51:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8740
Is it just showing me like, oh, this is how you do it?
51:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8749
So you also get it started like a lot of the boilerplate stuff.
51:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8762
So that there was a way.
51:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8775
See how easy, like all it takes to initially get off the ground and run.
51:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8781
Simplest way would be if the audience.
51:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8796
Is prepared, maybe including all of these concrete examples in the start of a new project.
51:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8803
Project, which I appreciate.
52:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8819
JavaScript land is so fucked in there.
52:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8823
Look how many copies.
52:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8830
I don't think you need to get rid of this one.
52:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8834
So the better hold uses this more flexible.
52:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8845
Exactly.
52:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8853
A metadata object, custom headers, when you do the authorize and create the session.
52:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8854
So cool.
52:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8868
Yeah, basically customer can do whatever they want on that end.
52:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8870
We should do that.
52:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8881
You're going to have React Router.
52:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8885
It's a demo.
52:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8891
It's a demo.
52:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8894
We should- Sorry, we have a demo.
52:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8897
Yeah, I have that one.
52:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8904
That's the one I built in.
52:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8909
Ah, you have four.
52:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8915
I have a company on my Jans done it.
52:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8919
Jans done it.
52:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8928
He saw it.
52:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8931
She from Bondon.
52:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8934
I could probably have code carving here.
52:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8937
For Like, yeah, we've met, 10 years.
52:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8944
That's, I felt like the quick start's now like, we've been structured quickly enough.
53:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8951
I'm just visiting for a couple of weeks.
53:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8965
Well, I live in Kitchener.
53:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8973
Okay.
53:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8978
Yeah.
53:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8979
Quite transformed into different frameworks quite quickly.
53:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8980
If you're in the club, like, when you start, I could probably, I'm originally from the states, from Colorado, Boulder.
53:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-8987
Lovely.
53:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9007
Um, I'm from like the countryside.
53:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9008
I'm a little country bumpkin.
53:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9014
Nice.
53:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9019
Yeah.
53:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9020
That's right.
53:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9021
I didn't know what to do.
53:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9023
I'm pretty happy about that.
53:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9029
Wow.
53:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9034
I think it lands back tomorrow.
53:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9035
What I will do.
53:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9041
Oh, do you know what I would get for access to call code nowadays?
53:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9045
No.
53:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9059
Yeah.
53:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9060
Best friend.
53:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9061
Oh, what do you do?
53:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9063
I have open code.
53:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9068
You're allowed to use that.
53:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9072
Yeah, but it just doesn't have the just doesn't have the love factor.
53:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9077
Yeah.
53:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9090
Even have to use codex.
53:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9091
No.
53:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9096
I've got cool.
53:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9097
You can't actually use a lot without telling people.
54:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9100
Yeah, that's how I do it.
54:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9109
Yeah.
54:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9115
Okay.
54:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9116
You got that.
54:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9117
Goodness.
54:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9120
Yeah.
54:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9121
And I'm gonna just.
54:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9122
I was paying so much for what.
54:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9126
I was joking to Jack about earlier.
54:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9133
I'm just taking.
54:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9140
What you said.
54:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9143
I'm putting it into Codex right now to make the first drop.
54:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9146
Sure.
54:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9158
Some of our teams have Devin, which I don't know, they seem to like it, but you never know, like, how much exposure they've had to, like, the different models.
54:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9159
I don't know.
54:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9189
They just like it because they're going from zero to, like, something.
54:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9192
Okay.
54:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9204
Or whether they're going to, like, I had this amazing workflow we called code in.
54:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9205
Yeah.
54:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9220
It was so quick.
54:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9221
Playing with block trees or...
54:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9225
No, with the GitHub.
54:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9230
Yeah, with issues.
54:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9234
It's like parallel code with GitHub issues.
54:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9237
Really?
54:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9244
It was so good.
54:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9245
That's why I like Codex.
54:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9249
Codex Web is really nice.
55:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9254
You know, it's in the ChatGPT app on your phone.
55:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9259
It's actually...
55:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9269
You can just go and then just be like, do this with my wrapper.
55:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9271
I still have an idea at night and it just does it.
55:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9285
It's the only one that works remotely these days.
55:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9297
Code fucked it up after
55:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9306
167 something that you cannot remotely log in.
55:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9311
So I used to code from the couch, from my phone.
55:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9319
I do it from GitHub.
55:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9330
I just make an issue on GitHub.
55:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9335
Do this.
55:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9342
Yeah, but you have to do this basically work around, right?
55:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9344
But I like to hit my computer exactly with the terminal and everything and do a bunch and basically so I can then pick pick it up without any handover between platforms and cold code.
55:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9355
I feel like they must have done it on purpose because people just connect.
55:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9390
Them and don't like, it's this thing called Vibe Tunnel.
55:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9404
Vibe Tunnel.
55:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9414
What is that?
55:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9416
That's like, I'm using, it actually does, doesn't it?
55:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9419
It sounds ominous.
55:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9428
It also has the worst sound.
55:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9431
Wait, is the sound of the Vibe Tunnel?
55:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9437
I was expecting a different drop there.
56:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9445
Like, it's a video game.
56:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9452
Yeah.
56:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9457
Mario, right?
56:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9458
Yeah.
56:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9460
They've changed it.
56:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9461
This used to be on, like, fully loud and you couldn't turn it off.
56:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9464
I shouldn't have.
56:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9478
Yeah, it's kind of cool.
56:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9481
This.
56:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9486
This.
56:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9487
So what is your.
56:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9488
This should work for you.
56:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9492
Exactly.
56:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9497
Oh, I was showing you.
56:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9498
It changes.
56:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9503
Does it do that?
56:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9505
It's.
56:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9509
It allows you to, like, log in.
56:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9510
It's.
56:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9517
What's that?
56:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9518
What's that thing called?
56:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9520
It's a wrapper around effects and Brands.
56:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9524
It's like that.
56:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9531
And not any scale.
56:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9534
What's that thing called?
56:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9538
Yeah, yeah.
56:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9542
Back end, I think it sounds like, I can't remember.
56:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9544
There's some software that allows you to basically connect to your computer over the public internet from anywhere.
56:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9554
Even in, like, global.
56:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9572
That's what you just said.
56:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9576
Tail scale.
56:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9581
Yeah, I'm saying.
56:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9583
Yeah.
56:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9586
So Vibe tunnels are wrap around tail scale, I think.
56:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9587
Well, people connect it called so.
56:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9597
Yeah, well, it just, it proxies your terminal.
57:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9603
I know.
57:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9611
Okay, that's going to go.
57:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9613
In the four months I've been there, there have been like three of the stuff that you said.
57:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9618
It is sick.
57:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9636
The latest one.
57:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9639
And I was using conductor before as well.
57:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9642
Gen's virtual trial.
57:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9650
I have a little video in memory that kind of like conductor.
57:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9653
It's fine.
57:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9665
It's already Matt.
57:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9667
On in your Instagram, you click on a brand when they have a commercial short, whatever.
57:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9670
You click on it, it opens this like full screen page and you basically check to it.
57:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9686
This is what I want to find.
57:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9703
Whatever.
57:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9710
If you like it, you can log in and at that point you can like throw in your image.
57:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9711
It basically does the video on you with all the pieces, like basically composed the whole set.
57:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9730
And if you keep logging in, that basically remembers.
57:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9747
You've got maps from GitPod.
57:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9756
It's the biggest podcast.
57:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9761
Friday.
57:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9765
Oh, I'm following for the slip stuff.
57:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9766
With Luke Harry's while I'm laps.
57:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9773
Yeah, he was good.
57:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9779
He's been on yours.
57:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9783
I think I listened to my news.
57:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9787
Yeah, that's the Sick.
57:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9794
Yeah.
57:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9798
But, yeah, the voice part of it.
57:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9799
Yeah.
57:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9806
It's really fun.
57:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9807
Like, it's really.
57:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9810
You gotta get him out of his shell.
58:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9813
Because he has got, like, a.
58:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9821
He's got a Persona, right?
58:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9827
He's got a work Persona.
58:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9832
How did you break him out?
58:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9837
I'm not sure if I got him out of it, to be honest.
58:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9843
I don't know.
58:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9856
I think you should.
58:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9859
What was your technique?
58:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9863
I've never seen my wife.
58:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9867
Well, I'm not very good at it, but we'll just, like, chat, like, absolutely bollocks, and it seems to work.
58:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9872
I feel like there's.
58:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9892
Is that, like, a question that you can ask someone that just, like.
58:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9896
Take some down.
58:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9909
People should plug in a few levels of takes down.
58:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9912
It seems like watching YouTube.
58:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9922
If you ever listened to Investor with the Bath, so she sounds like cheesy, but this guy Patrick on a voice, it's very like, such, I think I recommended to you, he's such a good interviewer because, because he just are very, very short.
58:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9927
And then we need the perfect response.
58:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9971
We need to name the voice.
58:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9978
But they're very well thought out questions.
58:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9984
At the end, his question is, what's the kindest thing everyone's ever done?
58:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-9991
And it's like a Financy podcast as well.
58:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10004
So you like take people deep.
58:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10012
I want to interact with it now, but it's a great podcast.
59:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10018
And they suddenly like reveal things and open up.
59:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10030
I wonder if there's something like that you can do at the start.
59:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10039
That's the closest all that opens people up.
59:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10052
How's your mother?
59:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10060
That's great.
59:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10063
That would be something.
59:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10065
You can just do it before you press record.
59:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10069
I learned from Jack that you never press record.
59:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10078
You always record.
59:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10087
A-B-R.
59:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10090
Always be recording.
59:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10091
There's this A-B-C, which is like this.
59:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10094
It's from Wall Street.
59:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10101
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
59:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10105
The old one.
59:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10108
My mum was an A-B.
59:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10111
I kind of made up.
59:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10116
I think like Tim Ferriss or someone was saying like, okay, the most important part of an interview is like the five minutes before you start recording, but someone was just like, we just have to try.
59:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10121
Me and Will just got so pissed off that we chatted about all the fun stuff right at the beginning, and.
1:00:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10158
We haven't pressed record.
1:00:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10179
No.
1:00:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10183
Because it was like the stuff that we really wanted to chat about, we just brought it up.
1:00:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10184
And then we were like, oh shit.
1:00:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10202
We need to record at some point.
1:00:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10209
Yeah.
1:00:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10216
That happens sometimes, I feel like.
1:00:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10217
Or like at the end sometimes, like, you stop recording and you're like, oh yeah, by the way, like, I can't believe you said that.
1:00:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10223
And they're like, yeah, let me tell you this all.
1:00:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10248
Let me tell you this thing.
1:00:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10258
Okay, Jam, Codex is going to come up with a draw for that fix.
1:00:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10264
Nice.
1:00:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10278
The headers one.
1:00:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10279
The headers and the metadata.
1:00:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10282
I tried to look for the repo.
1:00:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10287
You shared with the React Router to see how my implementation is different.
1:00:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10294
Yeah, I have no idea how to find it.
1:00:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10307
Oh, I can find it.
1:00:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10316
Okay.
1:00:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10321
Is there one not drinking or anything?
1:00:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10322
He is officially dead and...
1:00:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10329
Can you.
1:01:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10334
Have open containers here in London?
1:01:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10336
Yeah.
1:01:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10342
Can.
1:01:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10343
You what?
1:01:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10344
The Americans can open alcohol.
1:01:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10346
Can you have surprise?
1:01:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10351
You can get arrested, right?
1:01:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10355
Yeah, yeah.
1:01:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10360
You'll get fine.
1:01:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10362
In Switzerland you can too, but you can have beers.
1:01:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10365
And I think that's true.
1:01:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10375
It's because I'm so used to, yeah.
1:01:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10380
You're used to being able to drink on the tube and stuff as well.
1:01:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10387
I mean, I don't think anyone, does anyone ever get like told off for drinking on the tube?
1:01:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10401
I haven't drunk on the tube so can't see.
1:01:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10419
I see it would like spill up obviously.
1:01:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10428
Has it got there quite yet?
1:01:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10436
Hmm.
1:01:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10442
Having a drink on it, it hasn't got that bad where you have to have a drink I think some after work.
1:01:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10443
You see this?
1:01:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10465
Yeah, just reading over it.
1:01:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10468
Chuck was off.
1:01:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10473
There's quite a lot of stuff actually.
1:01:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10476
We got loads.
1:01:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10483
Yeah, this is great.
1:01:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10486
Thank you super valuable guy.
1:01:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10490
Yeah, this is awesome.
1:01:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10495
So when is the Python version coming?
1:01:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10499
It's awesome.
1:02:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10506
Yeah, so interesting.
1:02:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10508
Well, we already have.
1:02:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10511
We have it.
1:02:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10515
We need to fix it.
1:02:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10518
The thing we did is we fixed that whole conversation storage thing in the JavaScript ones.
1:02:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10523
So I think we just need to apply that to the Python ones.
1:02:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10539
So that'd be the second.
1:02:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10552
No, everyone doesn't believe.
1:02:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10557
Yeah, I think we're gonna switch to a DI.
1:02:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10561
So when you do that voice chat, it's just a worker.
1:02:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10570
It's easy.
1:02:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10581
It's the web socket coming from your browser.
1:02:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10583
Yeah.
1:02:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10591
Yeah.
1:02:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10592
So then it makes the web socket's connection to 5G for the transcription.
1:02:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10593
It makes a connection to your chosen text to speech model.
1:02:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10606
And then it makes, and then it has a web socket connection to a DI that records all of the messages for us.
1:02:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10617
Everything I can think of.
1:02:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10640
Kill.
1:02:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10645
Okay.
1:02:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10646
That's like, yeah, it's definitely coming down.
1:02:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10647
And then, but you're recording all your.
1:02:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10654
Messages for all from the whole platform in one do.
1:02:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10661
No, no, no, no.
1:02:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10671
Your dash.
1:02:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10675
Okay.
1:02:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10677
Yeah.
1:02:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10678
Yeah.
1:02:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10679
That was single point of it.
1:02:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10680
It's the benefit of it.
1:02:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10686
Yeah.
1:02:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10691
It's her session.
1:02:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10692
And so that collects all the messages.
1:03:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10695
And then.
1:03:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10702
Saves them to drsql.
1:03:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10704
I think that's.
1:03:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10708
And then when the session's done.
1:03:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10711
And that DO saves all those messages to a file, like file two file is a JSON file.
1:03:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10717
And then it boots up a background task, which loads up that JSON file, which has all of the audio in like base 64 JSON messes from Nice chunks.
1:03:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10735
Bet that looks pretty.
1:03:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10764
So hard to debug, right?
1:03:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10768
And then it turns it into WAV files.
1:03:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10773
And then it has to do some really crazy stuff.
1:03:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10781
I think we need to real detect this because right now, when you ask if you respond, like, I mean, like, okay, is that generate faster than
1:03:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10791
All the AIs respond.
1:03:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10818
It sends all that audio to you in the browser.
1:03:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10822
I understand.
1:03:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10832
Like, that's gonna say, problem in my mind.
1:03:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10834
Then it slowly plays in the head.
1:03:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10842
But then if you interrupt it halfway through, it's just gonna be done.
1:03:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10849
Like, when we make a recording of that conversation.
1:03:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10862
Oh, you got the whole thing.
1:03:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10871
Yeah, we need to know, like, oh, you interrupt under there.
1:03:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10877
So, like, we have to cut that part of the audio.
1:04:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10888
Yeah.
1:04:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10899
That's overcomplicated.
1:04:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10900
So I think we're gonna move to a method where we have a video conversation about on a loop approach.
1:04:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10902
It basically it It receives audio and it doesn't immediately send it to you.
1:04:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10922
Then it loops through and sends you packet by packet to pretend how you need it to you in real time.
1:04:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10936
Like it gives you 20 milliseconds.
1:04:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10957
Only 20 milliseconds.
1:04:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10963
That's how streaming works in the browser in general, right?
1:04:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10966
Like when you stream like YouTube or something, it sends you packets.
1:04:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10976
It doesn't do it all in advance because you might not watch it all the time.
1:04:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-10988
Yeah, it doesn't do it all the time.
1:04:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11004
Figure out these aren't like.
1:04:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11012
And like WebRTC was made for real time, right?
1:04:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11017
Because when you're chatting with a human, they don't generate it faster than they say it.
1:04:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11026
You actually, that's cool.
1:04:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11042
The first one where 500 coffin freezing.
1:04:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11046
So
1:04:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11053
definitely need simplifying.
1:04:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11054
It's much like the other one.
1:04:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11057
But our hope is that we can simplify that because it's been quite a headache that, like, audio pipeline stuff.
1:04:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11063
Some of that.
1:05:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11083
And then move on to some value add stuff.
1:05:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11086
So we had like some valuations and testing.
1:05:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11095
So then you can record a conversation and then like change your prompt.
1:05:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11103
Does anybody play a simulated version of the conversation again?
1:05:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11116
That's cool.
1:05:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11126
Because like Jack and finds that when you're testing voice agents, you're just in an office constantly having to speak to it and like, is it responding correctly this time?
1:05:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11128
Is it still kind of doing the tool call?
1:05:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11158
Obviously I'm my own level.
1:05:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11167
So this is why the hack thought was going to be quite interesting.
1:05:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11172
It's still everyone shouting like, which is hard to inform for.
1:05:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11185
Yeah, that'll help with the noise.
1:05:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11196
That's not well.
1:05:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11202
It makes up for it.
1:05:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11205
Yeah, right.
1:05:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11210
So it's almost like I had something.
1:05:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11212
We need a copy.
1:05:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11219
Yeah, I like that.
1:05:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11223
How long to copy for your video?
1:05:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11227
Shot to do like a branching.
1:05:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11234
Just like results for like 50 different.
1:05:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11240
It's my John B at the moment.
1:05:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11247
Yeah.
1:05:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11254
Or replay.
1:05:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11255
You know what I'm saying?
1:05:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11257
Stay in my lane.
1:05:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11262
Wow.
1:05:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11266
You can still be beating drums in other people's lanes.
1:05:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11267
Yeah.
1:06:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11277
I'm just changing the mechanism.
1:06:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11278
Yeah.
1:06:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11283
I want to copy it.
1:06:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11284
Yeah.
1:06:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11289
Sounded too hard.
1:06:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11290
You know what Thomas is?
1:06:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11293
Thomas's drum beat is.
1:06:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11298
Thomas's drum beat is sharding in a D1 to make it like actually a decent day of it is.
1:06:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11302
Yeah, the thing I guess like other people would say use D1 for that.
1:06:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11321
No, it's kind of a D1 is a D1.
1:06:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11335
Stop people from starting.
1:06:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11344
Is it?
1:06:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11348
Yeah, sorry.
1:06:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11350
There's a whole blog on that.
1:06:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11352
D1 is a D1.
1:06:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11358
Plus like some extra funny business.
1:06:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11362
But it's just basically a deal.
1:06:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11368
So why would I not just use a deal per customer or per shot then?
1:06:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11374
Yeah, you could, but then you have to manually shot.
1:06:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11389
See how it's like,
1:06:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11399
this probably won't.
1:06:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11403
Happen, but like the D1 sharding thing is very cool.
1:06:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11406
If you can just, you basically end up with planet scale.
1:06:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11416
Yeah.
1:07:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11427
But like sequel lite, you could call that like galaxy or something.
1:07:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11428
Yeah.
1:07:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11440
Yeah, Max was...
1:07:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11441
We were just literally chatting earlier, like, should we move our GC to Planet Scale or do we want to be able to find...
1:07:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11444
That's literally what we were...
1:07:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11468
We haven't made the decision yet.
1:07:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11473
Probably.
1:07:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11479
Yeah, really?
1:07:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11480
Well, okay.
1:07:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11482
Yeah.
1:07:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11484
How big is it going to get?
1:07:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11485
But the problem is not that big.
1:07:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11492
That's one thing.
1:07:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11499
Because we've put big stuff, like the whole session recordings, so it's in a do already.
1:07:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11502
But if you go to D1, you.
1:07:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11518
Will end up on Planet Scale at some point.
1:07:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11525
So you might as well go to Planet Scale.
1:07:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11534
Yeah, so that's why we haven't done it yet.
1:07:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11543
Snowclad but reason why de might more li in front is a hundred and fifty day for.
1:07:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11552
When, for example, you collect chat your agent That's like three hundred mi the seconds if delay.
1:07:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11569
I don't like it because the fi ananttain,co of potato ba.
1:07:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11586
doess which you took and we could all oneD one.
1:07:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11597
It's not yet you would have ye.
1:07:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11607
So you could give hyperd hypodrs on.
1:07:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11614
Planet scale We've got hypod now.
1:07:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11621
Hm.
1:08:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11627
Our will stage.
1:08:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11628
mentally and physically.
1:08:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11631
Things like creating the session key and they're all right.
1:08:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11634
Oh, that's not very nice.
1:08:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11644
Yeah, maybe if you can shout it well, that's what put in the deal.
1:08:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11649
I was not worried about it getting picked though, because the only user account.
1:08:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11663
Quickly showed to someone and on one.
1:08:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11677
Record per session you have 10 years above.
1:08:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11684
You can literally only have, what, like 10 gig or something, five or 10 gig, it's like not a lot.
1:08:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11692
They made it really high.
1:08:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11712
No, it's really not.
1:08:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11717
I thought it was like a terabyte.
1:08:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11721
No, I'm sorry.
1:08:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11728
I forgot I have a really small.
1:08:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11731
It's really small.
1:08:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11738
We had to see how.
1:08:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11741
No.
1:08:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11746
So.
1:08:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11747
I guess that's Planet Scale, then.
1:08:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11748
You have to use Planet Scale, but.
1:08:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11754
Then...
1:08:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11761
No, it says, oh, I've read it wrong.
1:08:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11762
Yeah.
1:08:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11770
Per account is one terabyte.
1:08:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11771
Yeah.
1:08:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11776
Per database.
1:08:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11777
Per database.
1:08:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11779
10 gigabyte.
1:08:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11781
10 gig per database.
1:08:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11783
So, yeah, when you get to five.
1:08:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11787
Gig, you should be scared.
1:08:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11794
This is my story.
1:08:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11799
Okay.
1:08:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11803
I'm like, hello, you made it.
1:08:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11804
Miss us, see you.
1:08:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11810
Hi, everyone.
1:08:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11814
Don't worry.
1:08:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11816
Thank you.
1:08:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11818
Nice to meet you.
1:08:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11820
Come.
1:08:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11824
Sorry, I'm late.
1:09:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11825
No worries.
1:09:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11828
This is so great.
1:09:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11830
I'm so glad I'm here.
1:09:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11834
This is so great.
1:09:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11839
Hey and big Mr.
1:09:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11843
Jack from the hi hi he's another wonderful tester who are now just showing because they successfully invented an agent oh nice Builders Builders Builders
1:09:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11847
I guess help yourself there's a bit left and then they're giving you a brand new place as you'd like.
1:09:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11872
So then you yeah.
1:09:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11892
Well It worked.
1:09:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11896
It worked.
1:09:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11899
Okay.
1:09:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11901
It was just good.
1:09:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11902
So we wanted to make sure that everything wasn't just gonna suddenly break and.
1:09:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11906
We did the half and it's just fine.
1:09:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11920
So and it seems the socket is not going to kind of spectacularly break, which is good.
1:09:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11928
And we've got a mere whole board.
1:09:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11945
Guys, we can do this.
1:09:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11952
Oh, a gazillion things we need to improve.
1:09:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11957
Well, can I read?
1:09:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11965
Yeah, I mean,
1:09:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11969
you can measure it in your own network's perspective.
1:09:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11972
Well, have a look at those things.
1:10:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11981
Things.
1:10:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11988
Please try not to try it and then see if you can do some of them.
1:10:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-11989
I don't know because you know, you.
1:10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12005
Know, it's making me like, if it.
1:10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12012
Doesn'T make sense now, does it make.
1:10:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12019
Sense in the future?
1:10:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12026
Yeah, I feel like you have to try it.
1:10:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12030
I'm not going to experience it firsthand.
1:10:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12039
It's like, what is this?
1:10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12046
What are you saying?
1:10:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12051
Come and try it.
1:10:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12055
Like, it's going back to the analogy.
1:10:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12059
Of like, I said to you, that your co-founder of very well.
1:10:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12066
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:10:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12078
I wasn't sure if you you're gonna make it.
1:10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12081
Yes.
1:10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12090
But it'd be cool for you to try it and tell us.
1:10:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12091
So.
1:10:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12103
Thomas, this guy called Zeb and.
1:10:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12104
Max, where is he?
1:10:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12110
I know that.
1:10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12114
I follow him on Twitter.
1:10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12117
Yeah.
1:10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12122
They're basically plotting about how they can fake the actual.
1:10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12123
Oh, cool.
1:10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12133
Who did the diagrams?
1:10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12135
Did Zeb do those?
1:10:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12139
Oh, no.
1:10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12143
Brandon.
1:10:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12145
Brandon.
1:10:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12146
Brandon.
1:10:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12147
Braeden, how are you going to fill.
1:10:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12148
The gap for the outer basically?
1:11:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12155
Yeah.
1:11:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12161
So this is like, there's this like whole in parallel project about moving to micro front end.
1:11:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12162
And everyone's like, make it faster.
1:11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12179
No, because it's so awful.
1:11:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12185
Everyone's trying to like, kill it.
1:11:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12190
Kill the micro front end discussion.
1:11:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12196
And I am, yeah, there's half expectation.
1:11:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12202
It's got to the point where, because we're like, the best engineers in the.
1:11:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12209
Company are like, I am not.
1:11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12223
The best, the people who care about a web dev are like, freaking out and just deciding to fix it.
1:11:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12229
So there's like three PRs open, one to move to React 18, one to move to React Router 7, and one to move to
1:11:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12249
roll down or something from Webpack.
1:11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12273
And they're all just like, we need to make this faster.
1:11:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12279
He's like, otherwise they're going to kick off this two-year long project to move to micro front-end.
1:11:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12290
I just, that's crazy in a big company how you have like people doing like three different directions.
1:11:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12307
Yeah.
1:11:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12325
Do the same thing.
1:11:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12326
Yeah.
1:11:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12330
And then you've got to like deal with the politics.
1:11:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12331
No, but they're all doing that.
1:12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12341
They're not meant to be doing that.
1:12:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12347
Well, that's what's cool about Cloudflare.
1:12:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12354
They're gonna be like, they're gonna push.
1:12:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12360
All these PRS and then at the.
1:12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12367
End of it, they're gonna be like.
1:12:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12374
Oh, see, we need to move to micro frontends.
1:12:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12381
Okay.
1:12:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12390
That's the point.
1:12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12391
Everyone's like on the same page.
1:12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12394
Yeah.
1:12:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12400
And then the guy who wants to do micro frontends is coming up for If stuff's coming up for us, knowing.
1:12:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12401
Which ones to actually just pick, there's.
1:12:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12422
Some, there's some reason to think you.
1:12:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12429
Might be around for much longer.
1:12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12436
Yeah, he's advocating for micro.
1:12:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12442
Never heard a good thing about that.
1:12:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12447
I don't even know what it is.
1:12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12454
No, it's not even microfront.
1:12:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12461
Is it someone called web frag?
1:12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12466
That's what he developed.
1:12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12472
I have done the research.
1:12:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12476
That's not a good idea.
1:12:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12481
Yeah, but for him, it's so clear.
1:12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12486
It makes sense.
1:12:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12493
He understands it intimately.
1:12:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12496
He made it.
1:12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12500
He worked at Angular.
1:12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12503
He worked on Angular at Google.
1:12:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12507
It makes sense.
1:12:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12513
To him and then he developed this thing called Bodge Framework.
1:12:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12516
Some of us started with this, I don't think this has anything to do with yours.
1:12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12527
Yeah, I don't know.
1:12:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12543
But I feel like it's not a good idea.
1:12:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12547
None of it's a good idea.
1:12:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12556
I feel like it.
1:12:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12562
You kind of need, I don't know, stuff like React where everyone knows it to make just make things efficient because if you have something that's just like one person, this is gonna be bad.
1:12:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12566
We can't do it.
1:13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12601
They just can't do it.
1:13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12605
I'm with you.
1:13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12610
I'm drumming.
1:13:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12613
I'm beating your drum.
1:13:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12615
What's gonna be used is like, headphones.
1:13:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12619
Microphone dance.
1:13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12626
They can't play dashboards.
1:13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12628
It's been a bit slow recently.
1:13:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12632
It is getting better.
1:13:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12638
It's way better than it used to be.
1:13:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12642
I almost did a PR last week, on Friday.
1:13:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12650
Yeah.
1:13:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12659
ZPR on Friday, it dropped like build times by three minutes.
1:13:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12660
I'm like, 14 minutes to 11 minutes.
1:13:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12671
It's actually like kind of crazy.
1:13:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12678
And everyone was saying, it's never going to get below 20 minutes.
1:13:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12684
And then basically these three guys have just be my, I think, my beer for, like, not even that long, like, the past, like, four days.
1:13:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12696
And it's gonna.
1:13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12722
It's gonna get below five minutes.
1:13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12725
That's the way you make stuff happen in a big company.
1:13:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12731
You say, this is never gonna happen.
1:13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12742
No one's ever gonna manage to do this.
1:13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12749
And smart engineers are like, no.
1:13:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12757
Can I get your attention?
1:14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12763
There is water.
1:14:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12768
There is water.
1:14:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12771
And if you cracked two and a couple of glasses, you'll remember this.
1:14:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12774
So you send a Walmart text to.
1:14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12787
Yeah, why?
1:14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12794
And there's also some self-driving cars.
1:14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12796
And they even have that you can be linked with your past feelings.
1:14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12802
So you're doing that already.
1:14:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12815
Yeah, that's reverse psychology.
1:14:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12820
That's the way to do it.
1:14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12824
It's very funny.
1:14:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12830
I think I mentioned it's in the chat.
1:14:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12833
As soon as you said, we need to do this, we should do this, everyone's like, no, you don't tell me.
1:14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12841
No, yeah, exactly.
1:14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12862
Only a few developers are chatting.
1:14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12865
You can't possibly do this.
1:14:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12871
It's.
1:14:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12876
You'll never be on our do.
1:14:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12877
Thomas, like, by the way, if you argue with me or my friends, expect me to keep receipts.
1:14:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12883
He's just a chat.
1:14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12901
Oh, yeah.
1:14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12905
Oh, it was that.
1:14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12907
Don't worry.
1:14:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12911
I can think I can share it here.
1:14:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12913
Okay.
1:14:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12921
It's TM events.
1:15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12922
He's big.
1:15:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12925
Coffee cups there.
1:15:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12927
Amazing.
1:15:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12930
Yeah.
1:15:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12931
Sweet.
1:15:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12932
It's capital B capital.
1:15:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12933
So you say is there's like a 78, I think, but yeah, film and you don't obviously don't.
1:15:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12937
All right.
1:15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12955
Literally.
1:15:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12957
So tell me, I think you've got a lot of this.
1:15:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12958
It was a very funny.
1:15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12969
Okay, questions for this.
1:15:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12974
No, it's okay.
1:15:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12978
But you've been here?
1:15:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12981
I'm happy to, actually, because I...
1:15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12985
So we have a golden...
1:15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12991
It's one of those.
1:15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-12996
Well, yeah, we just couldn't accept.
1:15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13000
Oh, yeah, yeah.
1:15:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13006
We've been here for 10 years.
1:15:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13009
Outside, Wolfsmüller.
1:15:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13015
Wolfsmüller.
1:15:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13017
Yeah, it was dark.
1:15:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13018
Dark.
1:15:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13022
Cool.
1:15:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13023
Cool.
1:15:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13024
My love.
1:15:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13025
Very much.
1:16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13027
So what these guys did was was trying to quick start and they could tell us everything.
1:16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13029
That was really confusing.
1:16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13046
That's how we ended up with our list.
1:16:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13050
Okay.
1:16:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13058
That would be really cool if you were also doing it.
1:16:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13059
I don't know, talk a lot of my minutes too.
1:16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13070
Yeah, it was going to be something crazy.
1:16:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13080
The problem is that the hackathon, we're going to have people doing this.
1:16:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13088
There are people that choose to use later.
1:16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13101
I think anything that we have to help little will do, because they're in a life stream, my gear is some kind of like eye in, which is.
1:16:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13109
You know, I show you a trombone.
1:16:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13137
It might actually be like very, it should works.
1:16:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13144
It should be very
1:16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13153
happy.
1:16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13157
Okay.
1:16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13158
So I was the strategy so that we can provide the best possible solutions.
1:16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13159
So it's like crawl, documentation, code documentation.
1:16:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13173
Tell me how we can merge together given books are responsible for what a good strategy would be.
1:16:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13180
And then generate it
1:16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13198
exactly.
1:16:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13202
Like first to give you an overview.
1:16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13203
Okay, you should probably do this as tooling within like a string.
1:16:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13210
So what's the solution?
1:17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13222
And like here is how you can actually implement that you can try.
1:17:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13226
Is actually call indices.
1:17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13239
It's like the tooling.
1:17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13243
Oh, wow.
1:17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13247
This is actually really quite good.
1:17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13249
Yeah.
1:17:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13255
This is what I'm saying.
1:17:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13256
It's like, why would I do what you're asking me to do when I.
1:17:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13261
Can just do this?
1:17:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13275
Yeah, I'm quite impressed.
1:17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13279
And then, and then I did a lot of followers.
1:17:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13283
Look, it's giving you a modernization.
1:17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13293
You can actually use
1:17:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13299
the session conversation ideas to add to B amazing.
1:17:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13303
So we're going to take.
1:17:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13312
I know.
1:17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13317
And then, we're looking at our reliability layer and so then the mom test questions for you.
1:17:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13319
Yeah.
1:17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13336
So I don't want to bias you too much.
1:17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13337
But after that, don't worry, it's gonna be fine.
1:17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13346
Um, then I was like,
1:17:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13355
I was like, okay, now architect, most like the actual record anything.
1:17:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13360
Task flow and like a big room.
1:17:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13372
One high.
1:17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13379
whistle the layer.
1:17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13381
Here's some lad Im as to say about our people.
1:18:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13384
Surelyill.
1:18:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13394
I' try to figure out what who wasn't minded to.
1:18:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13395
And the three minutes for his to.
1:18:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13405
Use, there's nothing, and his kind beat conmeration.
1:18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13412
I show this one know Aut the six,, said the.
1:18:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13420
I's difficult like your chargege And the fiound ssoundwise.
1:18:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13430
Mot easier' in people's c.
1:18:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13439
I don'.
1:18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13444
Think I some such a lockcause it's.
1:18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13446
Like if think like you're like even if's like an ale structure I would do next.
1:18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13453
I would be intrigued to see if that works, especially because
1:18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13469
I feel like this is going to be a common entry point.
1:18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13480
It's also quite easy to.
1:18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13492
I feel like that got all the dogs here.
1:18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13497
I can't remember what exactly that was.
1:18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13506
One of the features I haven't tried in this way.
1:18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13513
You can have shown.
1:18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13523
I haven't tried it like that.
1:18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13527
I feel like it's good static.
1:19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13533
Right.
1:19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13539
Because it means just getting to try out adults, just your body, that it's kind of got the right idea, just like, it is quite an annoyingly complicated, like, pieces of things to get together for the audio, but like, it would be easier if I've just done this one's entire audio.
1:19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13540
So I'm really excited to see if it gets some animation details right.
1:19:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13592
That basically there are some nuances and it was cheap.
1:19:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13605
I think this doesn't have the basic.
1:19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13615
I'm using Pro, though.
1:19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13622
You only need to stuff, so like, the more desaturation.
1:19:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13626
Guy, it was a perfect.
1:19:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13636
Maybe it's boring.
1:19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13641
FCR architectures and the first voice of the FCR was this like a really bored American.
1:19:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13644
So like it literally was the basic.
1:19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13660
Because then when you.
1:19:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13667
It doesn't get a reaction.
1:19:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13671
It's gonna pick it up.
1:19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13676
Tell me more about it.
1:19:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13681
Actually, why is it on the way?
1:19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13686
Ah, here.
1:19:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13693
So I should have just left it inside the glass.
1:19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13695
I'm taking it out of the glass, but you need to be clear about.
1:19:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13705
It's quite in No it will work I won't come like them.
1:19:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13719
But the two things we're going to lose with the.
1:20:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13731
This a commentation are one.
1:20:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13741
I'll su think about of I get free bill in this li so you don't go gap anyway.
1:20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13746
S as I will pay you right, fine as long as I shall the.
1:20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13764
Seehrmas delivers your little ranch, and there is nothing bnding so useful e to leave some.
1:20:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13778
But do have a strange that's where I complete.
1:20:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13794
Yes one thing That is this.
1:20:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13803
That being said, we did build this with code.
1:20:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13809
I'm not following.
1:20:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13818
I think so.
1:20:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13821
But when you run a new something, there are obviously some language that you are going to get.
1:20:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13824
You're going to get a quick dev branch, which is like a very basic JS app, which implements
1:20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13842
of the layer code that you can change.
1:20:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13860
And we're figuring out and input that tools too.
1:20:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13868
And it will also give you just a pre-built React or frontend, which is like a test of your Voice Sage on it.
1:20:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13877
Okay.
1:20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13900
So then when you run, like, this whole interface, we speak to it, like, most people.
1:20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13901
And you see the transcript.
1:20:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13917
And the other thing it's going to do, I don't know, is explained.
1:21:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13922
Yeah.
1:21:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13935
And the remix set doesn't work.
1:21:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13936
Tell me who to do the voice.
1:21:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13942
Yeah, maybe explain that.
1:21:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13949
You don't tell you exactly.
1:21:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13953
And there's no more image as well.
1:21:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13958
Oh, there it is.
1:21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13965
Yeah, there's a video of the director and everybody just.
1:21:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13969
Agrees.
1:21:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13979
Yeah.
1:21:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13980
Somewhere.
1:21:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13981
I remember
1:21:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13982
when you run it, Layercode can access your local machine.
1:21:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13984
Ask your agent to generate it.
1:21:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-13994
There's things like items and artifacts.
1:21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14000
Yeah, I really like this.
1:21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14006
It's web socket.
1:21:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14011
Well, it sets up in the.
1:21:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14014
Cloud.
1:21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14020
The cool thing it does is automatically syncs the tongue and different voices are like, tongue and that.
1:21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14021
But I was a founder, I was someone that was very shy.
1:21:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14039
But I like this method to work as I feel like a lot of people, I think it's the first part, you juice, integrate, so oh yeah, literally.
1:21:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14051
And not even if I, I literally just tasted the glue and was like.
1:22:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14079
I was just doing that.
1:22:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14093
It doesn't work, right?
1:22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14098
Yeah.
1:22:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14102
I mean, I, I'm doing so many things, like I couldn't possibly like sit here and go through like documentations for all the integrations.
1:22:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14103
I do this so often.
1:22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14127
It's a guess.
1:22:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14132
Like here's all the links, so now I'm making a merge, I feel like.
1:22:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14135
We should prompt, feel like we should write is quite meta.
1:22:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14149
I feel like in these docs, we should say the recommended thing is to download the quick start and then, and then improve the code from the quick start.
1:22:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14160
So that then if you're going to be using real time, most secure, GPT Pro did that instead.
1:22:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14189
Because in the, when you download this, when you do this and you get the quick start, you know, it's called, I don't know, I don't know.
1:22:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14207
So let me quick, I use subscription text.
1:22:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14234
Next, I use whole stack for all.
1:23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14242
But like these was agents.
1:23:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14249
So this is the quick start wrapper downloads, for example.
1:23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14254
There is an agents.md file in there, which is like a whole copy of our docs.
1:23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14264
I think it's gonna be...
1:23:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14280
So if you download this wrapper and then load Codex, so some day it's.
1:23:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14285
Effectively competing, which is quite...
1:23:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14299
It does know about like coding and everything.
1:23:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14304
Do you have like an.
1:23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14312
Yeah, so that's a copy of that, but then also on the docs.
1:23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14317
Yeah, that's a good point.
1:23:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14330
Yeah, that's a good point.
1:23:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14335
But also we linked to it as well.
1:23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14340
It does setting up agent store.
1:23:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14348
It's the biggest benefit.
1:23:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14354
We will try to come up with a line to official industry.
1:23:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14358
Yeah, we should just see.
1:23:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14370
But what I think we will always struggle with is we don't have to spend multiple brands.
1:23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14375
That's why we started both.
1:23:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14392
We really have cop started.
1:23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14397
So we will stop from the brand specifically.
1:23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14402
And that's the biggest problem.
1:23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14410
I don't think it's because I mean that it's a voice.
1:23:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14415
If the voice is not working enough, it's really going to be.
1:23:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14426
When I'm at the store, I want to buy this outfit, but they do chickens.
1:23:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14438
And I need to go another store.
1:24:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14453
I do have like GPT is basically I want an outfit for this event.
1:24:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14460
I think that's it.
1:24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14474
So I think it's going to work.
1:24:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14478
I think all brands want their own experience to compete with GPT, which basically makes it in the US and drives them to price quotes.
1:24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14485
But I don't think huge volume.
1:24:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14510
I mean just watching other people.
1:24:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14516
I don't think it's gonna be a big issue.
1:24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14522
Yeah.
1:24:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14531
Men's fashion, let's put it to the table.
1:24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14532
Pleasea wa for me answer the along.
1:24:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14540
Questions and the loose upps or the existtyles for can you are growing down.
1:24:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14547
You also con certificate for your building you Oh, I know you don't want to
1:25:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14561
how you offer.
1:25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14576
Do you want to have a fthy topic?
1:25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14579
I'll just say I just point don.
1:25:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14587
question you can only do start.
1:25:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14594
our context of how course.
1:25:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14600
Okay, I we just have gone.
1:25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14605
To best and far.
1:25:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14611
Them jofully waiting so Oh, she iss.
1:25:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14615
She wants them doling desk like the
1:25:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14622
He was not thinking about that.
1:25:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14629
Oh, you have that somewhere.
1:25:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14635
We have that somewhere.
1:25:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14640
Already.
1:25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14644
Last day.
1:25:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14645
Say what?
1:25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14647
Where do you get those from?
1:25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14649
We're really like, can't see, we're all on the dead.
1:25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14655
We need next people.
1:25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14665
We go to the hacks and then people hear about this thing and then you can try it.
1:25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14669
And then we're working on this, like, daily update for this pulse.
1:25:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14687
It has all these differences in their lives.
1:25:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14699
But they love that.
1:25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14707
That's already too much bias.
1:25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14711
I don't believe it.
1:25:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14716
It's like subsidized.
1:25:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14720
This is good.
1:25:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14723
Now we're at kind of at an intersection because last night I had like going to the last customer discovery calls.
1:25:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14726
They're a YC company.
1:26:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14747
They're doing verticalized.
1:26:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14751
And like anything you can take, they'll take them both.
1:26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14754
Voice agent operations.
1:26:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14764
Cool.
1:26:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14767
And they're doing like 5 million ARR right now.
1:26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14768
They're slaying.
1:26:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14777
There's, yeah, so many vertical voice companies.
1:26:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14779
So when we talked, he was telling me about a critical problem that is only just starting to scale that so painful.
1:26:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14786
And I can't buy a seat yet.
1:26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14808
It's so painful that they are now out into like, half of their engineering team and like calling resources from their partner data retrieval layer team members to like coordinate and solve this problem together.
1:26:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14815
I want to guess where the problem is now, but I still don't know.
1:26:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14850
They do a voice eight and have code to you.
1:26:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14864
It's like perfect.
1:26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14874
Sessions.
1:26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14877
And that's all I'm going to say.
1:26:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14878
It's got to be.
1:26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14885
I mean, based on the cuz we do all these.
1:26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14889
It's been amazing.
1:27:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14899
We have to be outside.
1:27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14902
Have you listened to like we heard about the I remember the sh I like a go more.
1:27:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14907
I think D
1:27:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14925
just made a lot of task.
1:27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14928
Okay.
1:27:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14934
I did go to scaling my tables.
1:27:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14935
I'm going to 100 again.
1:27:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14942
Tells us so much in visually we can come.
1:27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14947
We have your you Whatever.
1:27:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14956
Yeah.
1:27:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14961
Just understanding of the next steps.
1:27:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14962
That's great.
1:27:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14968
Okay, cool.
1:27:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14970
And he just did an episode on tab.
1:27:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14972
And it sounds like exactly what you're doing, I guess, I think that it's like, but it's like a customer discovery process.
1:27:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-14980
That should be your voice.
1:27:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15002
I call it like a voice advisory board.
1:27:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15007
I'm so kind of freaked out.
1:27:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15015
It sounds attractive.
1:27:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15021
I think you're not going to ask something to this.
1:27:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15024
Really?
1:27:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15034
Cool.
1:27:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15035
So, yeah, so, we've been doing this tab, I was going to find now, my phone's dead.
1:27:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15036
Actually, yeah.
1:27:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15053
Can you pass my phone, Jab?
1:27:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15055
Yes.
1:27:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15061
Yeah.
1:27:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15062
Sorry.
1:27:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15063
Make sure you save,
1:27:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15064
a little golden one.
1:28:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15068
Sorry, that's a tangent, but this is fine.
1:28:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15072
No, that's great.
1:28:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15080
I love that.
1:28:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15083
Yeah.
1:28:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15086
So yeah.
1:28:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15087
A lot of space to go.
1:28:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15089
Yeah.
1:28:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15095
This is a little internal stuff we have.
1:28:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15096
So these are all customers from other voice AI startups.
1:28:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15104
And I think Jack's been doing this if he's in hearing the pain points.
1:28:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15114
I'm always saying, oh, you just say that.
1:28:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15128
I do a longness from, from a long time.
1:28:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15136
One, I'm guessing, but similar to the transaction, it shouldn't be that hard.
1:28:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15145
The fastest one.
1:28:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15158
But maybe I've missed, maybe the problem is something at scale, which some of these customers haven't avoided.
1:28:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15161
I think that's a huge problem, but I think that's a problem that you were low-balling to the actual users to test for yourself.
1:28:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15179
This problem is
1:28:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15203
specific to because the fly operates
1:28:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15206
the first one, when we.
1:28:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15212
Actually get into...
1:28:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15217
Yeah, we were talking about that.
1:28:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15220
I think it's more like a.
1:28:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15226
Yeah, but it was not lazy.
1:28:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15232
It's not.
1:28:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15238
Right now they have just closed their first entry park.
1:28:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15240
There's like 9,000,000.
1:29:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15250
It's a
1:29:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15253
problem.
1:29:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15255
Even R only had.
1:29:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15256
We got another problem now.
1:29:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15260
So, okay, is it the problem or.
1:29:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15265
Is it the customers?
1:29:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15272
Because if I tell you then you're going to be thinking about it and.
1:29:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15276
Be like, I guess I'll try and Right into the out of sync.
1:29:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15290
Yeah, because that's a couple of things that we said and that have to do is to store important things.
1:29:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15303
Yeah, because you're integrating with your CDN system.
1:29:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15323
Yeah, and then inaccurate trans because I was like, okay, 99% of the time, then we'll get on to it.
1:29:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15331
So, like, say that up, like, it's almost true.
1:29:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15351
Okay, so the first one, read out.
1:29:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15360
For my context because this feels so.
1:29:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15367
It'S easier to just send.
1:29:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15374
But I know you probably have.
1:29:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15379
But then you don't read out.
1:29:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15385
So like we literally have so much time.
1:29:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15391
Yeah.
1:30:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15399
So like kind of far in the back.
1:30:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15400
I.
1:30:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15408
Think that's for the next year.
1:30:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15409
Love that.
1:30:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15415
The half time end of February.
1:30:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15417
And maybe what we do for the questions is like do like slide.
1:30:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15423
The first question is like last time and there is a modern hopes to fetch data or format.
1:30:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15436
There's an article stealing your life.
1:30:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15454
Yeah.
1:30:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15460
Obviously you feel like kind of open that you think feel sorry office still not they tray.
1:30:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15461
Well, I think that's harder than I have.
1:30:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15478
The way layer cake as architect doesn't help make that integration possible because I'm only 200 bucks.
1:30:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15486
If you take like the black box, you need to sell.
1:30:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15503
We'll say things like that.
1:30:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15514
The main way of integrating is like you define.
1:30:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15519
It's like constant called web box.
1:30:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15528
To those and then I just back into there and do a little loop.
1:30:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15534
And then get this.
1:30:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15548
You don't have a lot of people like how you can have all the same thing.
1:30:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15552
And like all these things.
1:30:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15568
So the way we've done layer code.
1:30:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15573
That gives you do all the voice.
1:31:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15580
And then we shuffle translate to your back end.
1:31:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15587
And the idea is that then you can control that a lot, right?
1:31:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15596
So then if someone's coming in with like a python and job, they can just do it in Pythep and do their API calls to this.
1:31:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15609
It will.
1:31:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15635
Provide the tool to approve the approval.
1:31:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15637
So if I'm guessing like our customers are probably.
1:31:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15644
That approval workflow, I'm basically kind of working across like 2/3s, I.
1:31:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15653
Think you, it's a great question.
1:31:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15665
I don't know if we have enough insight into our customers challenges with the specifics of like the data we're trying to build the system to.
1:31:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15671
Yeah, I know, I know.
1:31:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15697
It works fine.
1:31:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15702
It's.
1:31:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15705
Just like a lot of.
1:31:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15706
Yeah, I would have like 10 followers.
1:31:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15711
One just for five.
1:31:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15718
One is like, does this need that computing solely is on the low level.
1:31:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15722
It's public as a code as it was.
1:32:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15736
So it makes sense that you.
1:32:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15744
I mean, for that, then it means maybe we are trying to abstract away any of these, those five use cases, because the backend logic of all.
1:32:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15750
I mean, if you're using lock, how.
1:32:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15777
Do you accept for this?
1:32:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15784
It's kind of like, I'm watching my hand, this.
1:32:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15789
I don't care.
1:32:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15798
I don't care about the application.
1:32:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15801
That would maybe make sense doing what you're doing now.
1:32:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15807
But I wonder if by the time, what you'll see is like the first in the space you're hitting, say if it's operation, pick the things out before.
1:32:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15817
Move.
1:32:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15845
And the more that they do have the largest, the different corporations, that they don't, the more that like you have to have this quality of data and they might already have pretty superior similarity and quality and then they're adding more.
1:32:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15846
It might be because people don't have a data table that you can send.
1:32:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15888
To the thing that we felt, I don't think we've heard enough skepticism about that.
1:33:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15902
I think the main to the agent?
1:33:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15917
Yeah, exactly as you described.
1:33:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15924
I think that the way we've seen in that is giving them control.
1:33:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15929
So they need to hire an agent.
1:33:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15942
So like that's like the fundamental thing.
1:33:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15949
We have heard from customers is like when they're using more of a platform like Vatti and this is quite so concerned with like the voices.
1:33:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15956
I need to layer when there are issues and they can't always That's why I think find the source of the issues because Daffy doesn't look at it.
1:33:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-15982
And then when they do find the source of the issue, they can't actually go and fix the issue because it's too much of a black box.
1:33:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16010
It's really because of the, this is one of the, and then by giving you control of the behavior data, but you control your backend, then you have visibility of those problems.
1:33:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16037
And I let them off kind of you're a treat on top of the toy.
1:33:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16069
You do like an API call when it takes too long or you have a 10 second delay and then you send it back to the LLM.
1:33:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16084
And then the 11, 11 generates response.
1:34:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16111
Which is someone, no.
1:34:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16118
Basically that, I.
1:34:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16122
Think.
1:34:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16125
But there's something around observability that.
1:34:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16126
AI is the case still.
1:34:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16132
Hasn'T been
1:34:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16137
solved.
1:34:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16139
And you can imagine if that's the case, how many critical operations fail.
1:34:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16140
It's a problem for with deployment.
1:34:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16153
And there's also, there's also a challenge server.
1:34:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16159
So there's a look, see, I'll just say, where someone speaks something, it gets transcribed, then there's like,
1:34:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16167
tool calls that the LLM generates, and then that does kind of just want to hear it, what actual things that happen, which could have a whole trace, a set of them and then responses, and then, and then when you, when you have an issue, like you hear the recording and there's like an issue, Yeah, that's fine.
1:34:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16185
I don't feel like you want to try and work out, like, where was the problem?
1:35:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16244
Not only are you going to go through that voice AI transcription layer, but then you want to go into like the observable, the tooling, the tooling, exactly.
1:35:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16260
To find out that all thing is not connected, find out very much is on point.
1:35:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16288
Connecting in a very, very painful.
1:35:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16304
And if you're non serving that in an intuitive way.
1:35:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16310
Yeah, because we are literally using the.
1:35:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16320
Air and frustration for the end user.
1:35:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16327
And like, and if they're integrating and they handle their backend logic themselves, but the failure is with your service much easier and don darenaughty, but we quickly iterate as was talk if I would.
1:35:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16334
Fix it well both that One of.
1:35:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16369
The frustrating things we talk now, exlainedli.
1:35:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16376
let' see they back and s.
1:35:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16383
They hear a slow response from the section.
1:35:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16389
It short It's not so little be.
1:35:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16397
So That's a matter of reason I.
1:35:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16404
Do part you that's it's soly try one.
1:35:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16411
She said much on I fael and the answerance to.
1:35:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16419
It's too early for this question.
1:36:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16429
I'm curious if you have any insight into some of the light too lane, but like that or even justkn templets, the your such yourshti in to break.
1:36:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16435
Somethingmp up at a f when you.
1:36:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16463
Sto I
1:36:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16470
b or a institute sto.
1:36:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16472
He do hobbies in sto
1:36:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16477
for the.
1:36:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16482
Service.
1:36:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16484
Only forunal I'm sure.
1:36:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16485
It is this kind of like an MCPD.
1:36:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16489
Yeah, it's only that I went to my dog.
1:36:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16497
I don't think we've got enough volume.
1:36:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16506
You have the minute the fire, right?
1:36:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16513
LMS, TXT, right?
1:36:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16520
Because they have LMS fully TXT.
1:36:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16523
I'm going to do a little example to do a chat with your dogs for MCPD.
1:36:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16529
You can deploy, but I've done my end of the way.
1:36:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16545
You go to mid docs dot that and they'll always show the don't use.
1:36:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16556
Slash MCP and yeah, but it's not remote, is it?
1:36:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16570
People get stuff like off.
1:37:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16580
Is it just like, so I think you can just think again, you know, like on the, that's what you saw with the CLI.
1:37:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16585
You know how I see having this like,
1:37:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16609
yeah, I just added it to the thing.
1:37:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16617
Wait, dogs dot there.
1:37:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16625
And then, okay,
1:37:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16629
see, actually, there's like first suicide.
1:37:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16632
Because you'll know what this should be.
1:37:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16638
I don't want to tell you the wrong thing, but I did make it work.
1:37:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16645
But latency is the biggest problem.
1:37:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16660
You mentioned that.
1:37:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16666
Oh, it's 17ms.
1:37:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16669
Just 17ms.
1:37:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16672
Oh, no, that is it.
1:37:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16674
Yeah, yeah.
1:37:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16679
A lot about latency.
1:37:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16681
Voice AI, like the biggest problem seems to be those docs in general.
1:37:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16685
Does this work?
1:37:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16698
Yeah, this works.
1:37:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16701
So you can talk to things about, like, either height.
1:37:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16704
You can talk to any dops.
1:37:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16714
You actually want to make it work.
1:37:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16720
And even the file If you're on a server and then you have delay somehow somehow with audio, but then if you're on a server, you're like for web, you can yeah, this is actually what I was looking for Indecator as well.
1:37:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16727
That's cool.
1:38:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16770
I didn't realize they ship it as default.
1:38:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16772
I didn't realize they shipped it as well.
1:38:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16780
Yeah, I didn't realize they shipped it like this because obviously they have, this is a wrapper around LMSTFT, right?
1:38:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16788
Exactly.
1:38:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16808
It just causes one problem with that, which is so search.
1:38:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16809
Because when you're on a server, you're speaking, it's Wait, doesn't it, I think it's fun, doesn't it just expose such a conversation?
1:38:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16820
Yeah, when you're on the web, I think it's just that I'm not sure.
1:38:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16843
It just tells you, it's more like
1:38:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16857
they chug it to the image loads, the load.
1:38:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16864
Whereas in voice, it was a bit chug, I tried it on the ways.
1:38:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16873
Did it work recently?
1:38:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16887
Kind of didn't expect and I thought just did it on lag quickly.
1:38:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16891
I'm gonna make a little demo of how you can deploy your own one.
1:38:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16904
Or
1:38:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16918
any LLMs full you can deploy your own.
1:38:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16919
Exactly.
1:38:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16927
And they have add-ons.
1:38:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16928
Because there's six, there'll be like five.
1:38:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16932
Lines of one, one, one, one, one, one.
1:38:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16939
We make a call.
1:38:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16947
That'll be really cool.
1:38:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16951
One more.
1:38:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16955
We think about getting rid of jobable objects and we were talking about, oh.
1:39:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16957
If you were doing work, work, work, work, work.
1:39:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16971
Getting rid of jobable objects.
1:39:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16980
Like an ice cream shop, you need to do things.
1:39:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16985
So you can have, like, you'll be able to have stateless ones that are just workers.
1:39:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-16995
So, you know, you know we have worker entry point.
1:39:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17011
Send your message saying we could use one of those.
1:39:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17021
Work at that point.
1:39:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17031
Is that just what you were just calling it?
1:39:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17035
It's like a special way of creating a worker.
1:39:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17044
People are working on it.
1:39:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17053
Nothing with authentication.
1:39:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17058
It's not instead of just exporting any like retries.
1:39:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17061
Instead of like exporting a default function that just gets called as fetch.
1:39:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17070
You do it like this.
1:39:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17083
It's like you export a default class extends worker entry point and then you have fetch.
1:39:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17088
And you can also have other methods.
1:39:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17104
You've done this.
1:39:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17111
No, well, so you can.
1:39:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17114
So we'll export a default class that, To extend work at MCP.
1:39:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17119
And then I haven't quite worked out the dev experience yet, but it'll be like you'll register your tools, like something like this with maybe a tool decorator, and then then this will just run.
1:39:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17131
Feel like there's a few player tools on other.
1:40:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17166
So then you could instead of like, minimize your, like, just use the URL, like, latency just spike.
1:40:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17175
So you could make your own like, MCP and you could make your own MCP yourself.
1:40:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17193
It was like, really quite easily rather.
1:40:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17209
Than how you just deal with that.
1:40:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17216
Some customers might, it's just been, like latency.
1:40:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17223
You don't ever know.
1:40:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17231
I think MCPs are scam.
1:40:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17235
But that was.
1:40:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17240
Nice.
1:40:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17243
A scam from big MCP.
1:40:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17244
Like that.
1:40:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17249
That's really big.
1:40:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17251
And then also, like, voice.
1:40:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17254
They can be, but like every time.
1:40:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17259
I try to play something, we've big topline.
1:40:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17266
Big AI always provide and fall back.
1:40:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17274
Big.
1:40:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17281
Yeah, it is hard to provide us.
1:40:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17282
No, no, but I mean, like, if.
1:40:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17289
You see it, then go.
1:40:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17296
It's like when you're actually building something, like, yeah.
1:40:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17301
Speaking to this dentist, basically building if a school set up more business.
1:40:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17310
Yeah.
1:40:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17323
It's like via the voice agent.
1:40:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17324
The voice agent's not working.
1:40:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17330
It's a big problem.
1:41:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17335
The winning part of them is someone's.
1:41:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17339
Yeah.
1:41:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17346
I think people just do MCB to do.
1:41:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17347
We definitely one of the things we've done was by building on cloudflare.
1:41:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17355
I feel like is tough sometimes.
1:41:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17368
It's gonna be easier job.
1:41:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17374
We're gonna have less hard problems than some of the other competitors have.
1:41:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17379
We need to take something off for life.
1:41:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17392
Let's go.
1:41:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17400
Okay.
1:41:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17402
I think this is where I would love to like align closer or to hear more about as in build.
1:41:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17403
Now just like you stone.
1:41:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17423
Free audio post production
1:41:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17428
by alphonik.com.
1:41:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/12#word-17432

-----

Episode: Jan (swapcommerce) feedback at pre-hackathon
Jan shares lots of feedback - including why he chose Layercode.
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11

Free audio post production
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-0
by alphonik.com yeah.
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4
I don't think, because I want to make sure we don't mess up, because I'm trying to write down as much.
0:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7
As I can, but it's, um, files, is it okay if I throw it that Damien?
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-28
Yeah, throw it to Damien.
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-44
There's some, this amazing, like, basically like documentation that he has written.
0:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-49
No, it's just generating mermaid stuff, but it's basically how I explained it to devs, how it works.
0:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-61
Wow.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-79
Okay.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-80
So you can probably use it.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-81
It's like a whole sequence.
0:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-87
You feel so handicapped knowing how it's built, trying to explain to people how it works.
0:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-92
Because I just don't understand the bits that people don't understand.
0:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-108
So that's super valuable.
0:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-119
Well, yeah, I think
0:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-123
that looks really, I hadn't thought so.
0:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-127
It's just also a good execution on that.
0:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-134
Can we go left, please?
0:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-142
So, what would you like help with?
1:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-147
Well, you want to speak like a pirate?
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-154
Wow, this is a, any, yeah, shirt.
1:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-162
I want to drink, by the way.
1:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-169
Is that the, yeah, it's a config file.
1:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-176
Oh, that's for the money, from the internet.
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-184
Yeah, the profit of welcome is high and falling today.
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-192
Bunch of different things here.
1:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-202
So, you can trigger this video in the system.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-207
Oh, nice.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-216
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-218
No, no, I get that.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-221
I think I'm a bit stuck on like where to go next because I like,
1:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-226
so like I did everything it told me to do.
1:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-241
And then I'm like, okay, I've spoken to it.
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-251
What should I do?
1:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-260
They don't give you any kind of suggestions.
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-264
I don't know if we should.
1:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-272
Yeah.
1:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-278
Yeah.
1:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-279
So now I'm more complex.
1:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-280
Walk me through it.
1:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-285
I think the, yeah, then the terminal should say as well, right?
2:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-289
On the output.
2:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-301
I'd say the next thing people probably do is put in a tool.
2:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-304
But then the other option is you've got, it makes your own UI.
2:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-317
Now there is, so sorry.
2:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-330
One thing I really dislike, I needed to remove it immediately from the demo, these like weird waveforms, the synth stuff.
2:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-335
It was nice to know that something's happening, but like then I, very quickly got tired of it.
2:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-356
So put in like a customer facing UI example, because we used to have this thing very like customer facing UI.
2:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-374
Because when you put it in front of customers, you don't want this, do you?
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-395
No, that's why it didn't turn into a whole.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-410
It needed to be clean and basically resembling ChatGPT as much as you can.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-419
But like we could have like dev mode, customer mode, switch in this.
2:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-433
One thing I will say is Now that I know how ours looks, when I use that one, I feel handicapped because I cannot type text.
2:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-446
That's like the, especially when you have a room full of people, you try to say something twice, you just can't get it over the line.
2:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-472
You just want to put that thing in and you can't.
3:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-498
I would really love to have that text box in there, now that I know you can.
3:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-509
We, we, yeah, we should.
3:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-526
The text box and then customer facing UI, voila.
3:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-531
So naturally you can, we have got an agents MD file here.
3:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-540
So you could like launch a Codex for code if you do, if you do use those for instance, and then say like, now turn it into a smart agent that does this.
3:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-552
Okay.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-585
And then it could think of chains like BUI.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-586
And it's got all the Laiko docs in there, so it shouldn't know how to use Laiko code.
3:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-595
Nice.
3:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-613
But yeah, this will be the point where there would be some specific voice.
3:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-614
We made it too easy.
3:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-628
You've done everything you need to do.
3:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-633
You've got a voice AI assistant.
4:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-640
Nice.
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-646
Cool.
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-647
Can you just hear it?
4:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-648
That's.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-653
Happening.
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-654
It's almost like a video.
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-655
Like you can just like, you know, hello.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-660
Every day.
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-668
Yeah, you didn't need to say anything over there.
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-670
Yeah.
4:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-679
Because Dan told you.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-680
Solid takes.
4:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-684
No.
4:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-686
What are you building?
4:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-687
E-commerce voice agents.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-691
Okay.
4:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-694
Okay.
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-695
Is this the enemy?
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-696
No, it's only.
4:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-700
We are actually using layer code, but it's a little bit more work than that.
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-703
Yeah.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-718
I think that's the.
4:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-719
That's the hard thing about voice is, like, a demo is quite easy to.
4:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-723
Yeah.
4:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-737
Production, not so hard.
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-738
Yeah.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-742
I had a minor heart attack.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-743
I was stress testing our database and discovered that rp95 is like.
4:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-749
Almost 20 seconds on some searches.
4:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-761
So I need to tell people like a whole fairy tale while it's searching.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-767
I have no idea what I'm going to do.
4:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-781
That is the crazy thing, isn't it?
4:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-790
As fast as the voice AI is hitting your legacy database.
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-797
So that's why I keep obsessing.
5:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-808
I have this like little framework in my head of different patterns for the voice agents where literally
5:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-814
I would love to have it simpler to basically combine something that's fast and slow and keeps the conversation going, which is like one pattern in one quadrant, right?
5:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-832
But you ultimately want to have how that fast agent, if you have two agents, fast and slow, like fast and slow, how much autonomy does the fast agent have?
5:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-861
Should it be just doing a chat that should it literally be just checking in on the bigger agent and just say, oh, I'm still looking, oh, can't find it, be funny, you know, like code code, how is this like gibberish at the bottom?
5:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-891
Like could it literally do that?
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-936
And then the next level is it literally can do like speculative drafting when you really get it open autonomy because like the fleshlight is pretty good and you can have it.
5:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-942
And then as soon as it finishes, like you can still run your slow model and that slow model can then issue in correction where if you know, you can risk it, you can basically have the slow model and be like, oh, sorry, I just checked.
5:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-974
We don't have the size n, right?
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1021
Which is still okay.
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1028
So I'm basically thinking about this, like if there could be a few patterns which are around.
6:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1032
Autonomy and like how deeply you parallelize these like different architectures, but like they will be, they will make it so much easier to build something that's both smart, but also like fluent that it keeps the conversation going.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1049
But I think that's thinking vast and smaller side of chance.
6:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1088
Yeah, but it's really how do you integrate the two?
6:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1099
That's the biggest problem because then you can end up in garbage from both.
6:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1109
And how do you control it?
6:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1123
And I think that's where I'm really trying to see that.
6:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1129
Remember how we're looking at voice stuff?
6:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1140
Yeah.
6:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1147
There's the two streams that we're talking about.
6:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1148
Yeah.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1156
Yeah.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1157
You kind of want to do like doing stuff like that.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1158
Did you do like, did real time API let you chat while the tool calls?
6:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1169
It does, doesn't it?
6:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1184
I think so.
6:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1188
Yeah.
6:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1191
You can do interrupt, but the tool call still runs in the back end.
6:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1192
So it would be more, it would.
6:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1206
Basically be real time.
7:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1213
Yeah.
7:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1217
Yeah.
7:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1218
It would be more similar to that kind of shadow conversation that the fast one keeps the conversation.
7:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1219
You would literally prompt it to speak more slowly and describe what the tool is that currently running, which is very hard to do with normal models because they are basically tuned to send a tool call and only then assist that message.
7:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1237
Exactly.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1280
So you need to actually, the only way to wire it up is to have a fake tool called pre call, which then pushes the model to have to call more tools and it's more complicated, fails more.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1281
So that's why I kept thinking like two tools are in a way simpler.
7:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1319
Sorry, two models are simpler.
7:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1333
But yeah, it's really messy to integrate that.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1338
Did they export nearly?
7:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1346
Yeah, it's solely exported.
7:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1350
Do you have, is that your laptop?
7:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1354
Yeah, you can drop it to me.
7:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1361
Okay.
7:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1368
Why did you look at using real time?
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1369
I literally built like a gym or OpenAI, Gemini, ElevenLabs, you guys, and others to do a bit of a side by side.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1377
Really?
8:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1400
Yeah.
8:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1401
Why did you pick us?
8:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1402
I spoke to Damien, and I was really pissed at OpenAI that day because there was some sort of a bug, but I just could not define tools at all, even though I was exactly following docs.
8:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1407
So I realized ultimately that magic...
8:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1444
The problem with OpenAI real time is incredibly fast demos because they have really good abstractions where you just say, I want real time agent.
8:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1450
But you get hit because anything meaningful, like passing the payloads, you need to hit the transport layer.
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1475
And at that point, even session update and everything, you have to add a transport layer because that transport interface is so not complete.
8:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1493
And providing all the tool definitions and things, it just was constantly telling me this is not valid definition of tool.
8:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1517
I spent literally two hours dissecting what exactly about the tool.
8:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1538
Who saw it?
8:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1549
Come two days, update the library, and it worked.
8:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1552
Maybe about, maybe I did something different, I don't know.
8:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1561
But basically at that point I was like, well, we will have this breakage and we'll completely fuck it.
8:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1571
And that morning I let you spoke to Damien and he was like, well, you will have your own beckett.
9:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1590
So we actually know that works.
9:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1610
Worst thing that happens, that audio goes away, but you still have text.
9:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1616
So it felt like way more robust.
9:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1629
So we were just talking earlier today about how we add in real time in Gemini Live and then give people the ability to test those and then transition to those when they get reliable or whatever for that specific context.
9:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1636
Because we've got another person who's doing tire booking and tire change bookings for German.
9:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1677
You know, the world of voice AI.
9:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1692
Um, and they were saying that the number plate and VIN number in German with real time API is just not accurate enough for them.
9:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1699
Although it seems to do okay in English for us.
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1724
Um, that was like their biggest problem.
10:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1734
And
10:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1741
it's interesting.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1742
It feels like it's just, it's going to get better.
10:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1744
But then, in all these scenarios, it doesn't cut it quite yet.
10:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1754
It's fascinating because we never felt like it's not accurate enough until we were using deep Cramalot in layer code.
10:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1766
Before we were using OpenAI real-time photo testing and ElevenLabs on their platform.
10:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1786
And that was literally picking up very clearly people speaking in Spanish, like eight meters away from me.
10:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1799
OpenAI real time.
10:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1817
But ElevenLabs has their own transcription.
10:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1820
When I was using ElevenLabs agents, I think it was pretty good in a noisy, It wasn't too noisy, but it was literally picking up a Spanish colleague.
10:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1826
I was super freaked out about what it's writing.
10:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1854
And then I realized it's picking up his chat.
10:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1863
Is that his helmet?
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1872
Can I assist you on your boat ride today?
10:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1876
It was picking up the Spanish, picking up background.
10:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1885
It was picking up background stuff, but it was picking up clear language and writing.
10:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1894
What's on the front page of accuracy?
11:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1909
Right now I was sitting in front of my laptop and I couldn't say, I want a jacket.
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1916
It was literally impossible.
11:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1934
I feel like we need to get.
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1938
So...
11:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1945
Did you try a stem?
11:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1946
On the front page of BBC?
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1951
They've got a, they were the next one on the list and they've got a lower word error rate.
11:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1957
I think this is the one.
11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1976
The problem is the live, the transcriptions didn't come through live as live as they did.
11:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1982
So you came from talking?
11:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-1998
Oh, okay.
11:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2003
Can you find a jacket for me?
11:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2005
Yeah, I don't know if it's still working.
11:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2012
I might have killed the backend actually.
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2020
I'm not sure.
11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2027
Oh no.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2030
Thank you.
11:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2032
What did you do?
11:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2034
Hook up to an API.
11:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2038
What API did you hook up to?
11:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2043
Yeah, what was it?
11:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2050
One of my friends was just...
11:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2054
One.
11:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2060
Of my friends was searching API.
11:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2061
Matt, one of my friends was teaching a coding class once and it was like he always used BBC as the example of like, you know, doing like flex boxes and stuff.
11:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2067
And then he was like, okay guys, Let's look at the BBC.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2099
Oh, by the way, there's been a terrorist attack.
12:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2111
Okay.
12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2120
And it was like literally a terrorist attack in London.
12:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2121
Like, while it was on the, and it was the class was like in London.
12:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2131
Just like, buy me a jacket immediately.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2146
Cool.
12:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2153
Did you send it over?
12:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2154
Natalie?
12:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2159
Yes.
12:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2160
Okay.
12:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2161
Do you think this is the best one?
12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2162
That was my memory, but I'm testing it in the noise.
12:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2170
You'll actually confirm to have the same environment.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2181
Find me a jacket.
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2189
I want something dark for less than 200.
12:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2193
Yeah, do it ASAP.
12:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2201
Yeah, it was brilliant.
12:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2205
Yeah.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2209
You should.
12:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2210
Yeah, the language.
12:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2212
I don't know why, but this is actually pretty clear recording for the numbers and the voice.
12:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2215
Just missed a lot.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2232
Yeah, we need five wardens.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2236
I said find new jacket.
13:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2241
Come on.
13:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2246
Perfectly jacket.
13:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2248
Every time I try to do it on the previous one, it says check it.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2250
It only searches most fun thing ever.
13:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2265
Okay, we're gonna put in the current.
13:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2272
Temperature,
13:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2279
but it's not set up here.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2280
You were literally speaking and it picked up perfectly.
13:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2286
50 grams has not got high enough accuracy.
13:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2295
Well, like you say, it might be better in some situations, but like, These are all my previous attempts to say a jacket.
13:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2303
Oh, this one actually worked.
13:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2326
But, all the previous ones were check it, check it.
13:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2331
This is good.
13:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2341
Tell me any own fact about...
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2344
So, wait, you wanna go to Google?
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2350
I wanna add something, which is...
13:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2357
This is so valuable.
13:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2363
This is like the most valuable fact.
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2367
I'm using the truth for...
13:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2374
Jan, this.
13:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2379
Is...
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2381
Guys, this is so funny.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2382
So you're saying it's going to be fixed on Monday?
14:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2387
Yeah.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2397
Yeah.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2398
Wow.
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2399
We're going to be working hard.
14:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2400
We know the list now.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2406
Give me some questions.
14:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2411
Or something.
14:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2415
I'll write me in.
14:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2417
Whoa.
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2421
There's a couple of groups in there, David.
14:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2422
What would be fixed on Monday if that was, oh, it was like for something.
14:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2430
You could wait a little longer.
14:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2445
Oh, there will be unrelated to it.
14:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2451
That would be unrelated to the dogs.
14:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2458
It would literally be Our devs are now stuck and they cannot build our front end.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2465
I think I posted in a group today.
14:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2481
Yeah, we haven't been in sync for.
14:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2489
A long way today.
14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2496
It's this one.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2500
So what is happening is we basically will have a lot of services behind Gateway on GCP and they cannot provide the headers so the response can't find it.
14:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2503
Yeah.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2532
From the car.
14:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2533
So the simplest way would be if we can basically tell you these are the headers to provide and then basically those are the ones you should come back to.
14:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2536
Yeah.
15:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2566
Okay.
15:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2567
Just give me the number.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2568
This would 100% be the number one, which is literally, that's why I was looking at the docs.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2573
I was trying to figure out, can we build it from your primitives?
15:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2591
So hard.
15:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2604
So these are some topics you guys think about.
15:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2606
Never was fun.
15:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2615
Gave examples on these topics to contact us.
15:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2618
This one is different.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2626
No, no, this is literally devs on our company are now stuck and.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2630
Cannot.
15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2643
Implement our voice agent because they cannot provide the creds to get into a VCC.
15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2644
Ah, got it.
15:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2659
Right, because there's a more authorized handshake and everything and there needs to be some forward handlers if the this is.
15:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2662
The same thing, basically.
15:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2683
So yeah, we're coming back to it.
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2687
This is where it got to basically they flagged like we can't move.
15:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2694
But we can do that tomorrow.
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2707
I wonder if we could expose that.
15:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2713
Okay.
15:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2720
So we can fix that.
15:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2721
Okay.
15:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2726
We already have this section.
15:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2727
I mean, it's not a hard bit, but there, that we had already thought back through, and there is metadata field in the database table for sessions.
15:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2732
It's just not settable by the API.
16:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2759
I don't know if that's going to be enough just to have the metadata.
16:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2766
I said it as well.
16:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2780
My concern is you will not get through.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2785
That's very awesome.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2793
To our back end.
16:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2796
So what this is, is basically CRUDs to get into our VPC on incoming.
16:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2800
What would you imagine?
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2814
So we need those to be included already coming out.
16:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2818
I'm just making my own project.
16:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2828
And I think that's a very great.
16:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2834
For your agent or
16:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2841
your dev environment.
16:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2845
I would expect there are some temporary to be saved.
16:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2848
That's the end state.
16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2858
I mean, I mean, mean selling this project.
16:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2862
But like I think a lot of customers will have the same true.
16:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2870
They have like income with them being.
16:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2883
Yeah, it's basically, if we added, it's.
16:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2890
More of a demo of like, this.
16:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2897
Is the API, yeah, under the web book.
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2904
And you could set any headers how to set that project on that code.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2912
Assume you're assuming they are fixed.
16:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2926
That's what's the problem.
16:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2932
And there must be a really, there must be a lot of rotation to be safe, right?
16:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2936
This is how you do it.
17:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2953
So I don't think there's a way to avoid it.
17:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2959
Like a lot of the, but basically, yeah, if there was a way, yeah.
17:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2969
Easy, like all takes to the ground and run.
17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2983
Simplest way would be if there are these custom headers that should be including or any communication in the session, start a new project.
17:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-2992
I appreciate this.
17:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3016
It loads so fast.
17:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3019
Look how many comments.
17:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3023
Yeah, I don't think you will be able to get your agent basically without them.
17:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3027
So the better for all users.
17:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3042
More flexible.
17:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3048
Exactly.
17:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3050
But we have better data of agents and custom headers when you do the authorize and create the session.
17:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3051
Perfect.
17:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3070
Yeah.
17:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3071
Basically if both are open, then the customer can do whatever they want on that end.
17:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3072
We have each do that.
17:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3088
Yeah, because client side, we can set it all ourselves.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3093
It's really the layer code to backend.
17:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3103
Yeah, because I'm working on this.
17:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3110
Yeah, that we can't.
17:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3116
We need to reroute the one.
17:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3120
For demo.
17:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3126
I could.
17:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3128
Sorry, reroute out there.
17:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3130
Yeah, I have that one.
17:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3134
That's the one I built in.
17:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3139
Oh,
17:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3145
I built it.
17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3146
So I have a company on the
18:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3149
market.
18:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3156
I need to sell it.
18:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3157
I could probably have code carved out.
18:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3162
Yeah, we've been like 10 years.
18:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3169
I felt like the quick start sound like infrastructure within that.
18:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3175
I've been visiting for four weeks.
18:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3186
Yeah, like transform into different frameworks.
18:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3192
I'm.
18:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3198
From the states, from Colorado, Boulder.
18:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3199
Lovely.
18:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3205
I'm from like the countryside.
18:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3206
Nice.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3211
Yeah.
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3212
That's right.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3213
I'm not.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3215
Yeah, I'm back.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3217
So I'm pretty happy about that.
18:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3220
Oh, I think it's actually.
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3226
What I'll do.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3231
Oh, do you know what?
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3234
I would give fraxus to call a code.
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3239
No.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3247
Yeah.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3248
I do not have it.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3249
What do you do?
19:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3254
I have open code.
19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3258
You're allowed to use that?
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3262
Yeah, but it just doesn't have the.
19:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3267
Just doesn't have the love facts of it.
19:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3274
You can actually use Kodax.
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3282
I've got a course.
19:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3287
You can't actually use a lot with that side of me will work.
19:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3291
Yeah, that's how I do it.
19:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3304
I mean, I'll see you a lot.
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3310
Yeah, I'm gonna just.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3317
I was paying so much.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3321
This is what I was joking to Jeff about earlier.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3326
I'm just taking.
19:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3336
What you said.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3339
I'm putting it into code right now.
19:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3342
So it's a good first draft.
19:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3349
Sure.
19:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3355
Do some of our teams have Devin?
19:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3356
I don't know.
19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3363
They seem to like it, but you never know, like, how much exposure they've had to, like, the different models.
19:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3366
I don't know.
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3386
They just like it because they're going from zero to, like, some.
19:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3389
Or whether they're going to, like, had this amazing workflow in called code and get.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3401
I was just something like with black tree or no, where to get a house?
19:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3416
Yeah, with issues.
20:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3431
It's like parallel pull codes with gab issues.
20:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3434
Really?
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3442
It was so good.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3443
That's why I like codeamps.
20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3447
Kind of really, like, you don't have to keep the JDF on your phone.
20:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3452
It's actually, you can just go and.
20:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3466
Then just be like, yeah, with my wrapper.
20:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3473
It's
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3481
the only one that works remotely these days.
20:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3482
Claude code fucked it up after 167 something that you cannot remotely log in.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3490
So I used to code from the couch on my phone.
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3504
I did from home.
20:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3515
I just make an issue of my code.
20:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3519
Yeah, but you have to do this basically work around, right?
20:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3527
But I like to hit my computer exactly with the terminal and everything and I like to code code and do bunch and basically so I can pick it up.
20:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3538
Without any handover between platforms and cold code.
20:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3568
I feel like they must have done it on purpose because people just connecting randomly.
20:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3576
But you can't log in.
21:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3591
Is this thing called Vibe Tunnel?
21:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3596
Can vibe that?
21:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3602
But like, I'm using Tealskay.
21:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3605
That sounds like...
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3610
It also has the worst sound when.
21:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3613
You do the vibe tunnel.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3620
Oh my god.
21:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3625
I was expecting a different drop there.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3628
Sounds like a video game to me.
21:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3635
Yeah, it's like Mario, right?
21:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3642
Yeah.
21:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3647
They changed it.
21:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3648
This used to be on like fully loud that you couldn't turn it off.
21:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3651
So that's kind of cool.
21:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3665
So what is your company trying to build exactly?
21:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3670
Oh, I wish I knew.
21:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3679
It changes every month.
21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3684
Right now,
21:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3688
because we have a company, Series A, a bunch of products for fashion brands.
21:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3690
It's like a backend Core efficient source.
21:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3704
Yeah.
21:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3711
Yeah.
21:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3712
Backend in the sense, like the software layer, YouTube, inventory, all those things.
21:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3713
That's basically what the core is.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3726
And like global commerce.
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3732
And I am in the venture arm where they are basically trying to place a bunch of random bets to figure out what would be the next analog for much higher proxies and terminal.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3736
In the four months I've been there, there have been like three different strategies already.
22:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3770
The latest one, and I was even in contact with voice agents, virtual try on, basically memory to give a user an experience.
22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3785
Basically you come in your Instagram, you click on a brand when they have a commercial show, whatever, you click on it, it opens this full screen page and you basically chat to it.
22:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3808
This is what I want to find, whatever.
22:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3842
If you like it, you can log in and at that point you can throw in your image.
22:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3850
It basically does the video on you.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3868
With all the pieces, like basic composed outfit.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3875
And if you keep logging in, that basically it remembers all the...
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3883
Because the biggest pain when you speak to like girls is basically they have to keep filtering for the same stuff over and over.
22:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3895
So you can remember all the basic preferences today.
23:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3919
I think I listened to my nails.
23:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3928
Yeah, that's the idea.
23:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3935
Yeah, but yeah, the voice part of it, like I've been telling to Damien, like it's really cool.
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3939
It has the vowel factor.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3957
But the reality is it's like 7% of the service we need to nail the interaction with our voice.
23:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3962
Because
23:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3981
I have never seen my wife shop with us.
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3982
I'm not very good at it because you're self-conscious of what you say, prices you mentioned, sizes you mentioned, like anything you say, you would have to be completely alone in a room and shopping them, which then like how many people shop like that and what they do.
23:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-3991
And she's even like watching YouTube.
23:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4040
And she's shopping during watching YouTube influencer.
23:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4046
So she can't use the voice assistant.
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4053
So practically that voice is like very narrow.
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4060
That's why I was pushing on text so much in the beginning because voice can be amazing, but we really need to have, we need to nail not the voice, we need to nail the fusion of voice, text and the UI together in a way that doesn't feel.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4068
Like a finance app.
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4117
Like a toilet paper chatbot.
24:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4121
But it feels like
24:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4126
however I want to interact with him right now, whether it's a click or say what I want, is kind of convenient.
24:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4130
That's what we need to know.
24:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4152
And I see.
24:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4158
That would be something.
24:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4161
You could just do it before you press record.
24:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4165
I learned from Jack that you never fresh record.
24:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4174
You always record.
24:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4183
AVR.
24:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4186
Always people calling.
24:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4187
Is this the AV C, which is.
24:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4190
Like, this is a.
24:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4197
Yeah, it's from on the water.
24:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4201
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4207
I'm not sure about AV.
24:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4210
I made up.
24:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4215
I think like Tim Ferriss or someone was saying, like, I think the most important part of any interview is like the.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4218
Five minutes before you saw the call, like, something was just,
25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4240
just kind of have to travel.
25:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4251
Me and Will just got so pissed.
25:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4257
Off that we chatted about all the fun stuff right at the beginning and we had the best record.
25:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4264
Yeah.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4283
It was like the stuff that we were going to chat about, we explored that.
25:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4284
Yeah.
25:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4299
And then we're like, oh, we could.
25:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4300
Spend a call at some point.
25:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4307
Yeah.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4313
Well, like, at the end, sometimes, like, you stop recording and you're like, oh, yeah, by the way, like, I can't believe you said that.
25:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4314
I'm like, yeah, let me tell you.
25:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4339
Did you grow up in London?
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4346
Yeah.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4352
It's like, that be time.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4353
Oh, been around here on Netflix for a few years.
25:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4358
I'm not going to go off for that.
25:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4368
Thanks.
25:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4376
Nice.
25:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4377
The headers one.
25:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4378
Yeah, I tried to look for the repo you shared with the React router to see how my implementation is different.
25:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4381
I have no idea how to find it.
25:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4402
Oh, I can find it.
26:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4410
Okay.
26:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4415
There
26:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4416
on my drink.
26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4417
Yeah.
26:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4420
Can you have open containers here in London?
26:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4421
Yeah.
26:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4429
Can you earn an alcohol?
26:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4430
Can you always surprise them?
26:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4435
You can get arrested, right?
26:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4440
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it fine.
26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4445
And sort of when you can too.
26:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4451
But you can have beer.
26:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4458
Anything goes around.
26:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4463
Yeah, you used to be able to like drink on the tube and stuff as well, but they changed that.
26:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4466
I think a lot of people still do.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4486
Does anyone ever get like got life told off for drinking on the tube?
26:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4494
I haven't drunk on the tube so can't.
26:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4508
I see, I would like spill half of it anyway.
26:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4516
Having a drink on.
26:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4526
It's got that bad where you have to have a drink.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4530
Afterward, let me see this.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4541
That is quite a lot of stuff, actually.
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4546
We got a load.
27:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4554
Yeah, this one is thank you so much.
27:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4558
Animal guy.
27:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4566
That's awesome.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4568
So when is the python version coming?
27:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4570
It's awesome.
27:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4577
Yeah.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4579
So, well, we already have.
27:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4580
We have it.
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4585
We need to fix it.
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4588
The thing we did is we fixed that whole conversation storage thing in the JavaScript ones.
27:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4593
So I think we just need to apply that to the puzzle.
27:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4609
So Python.
27:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4621
So would that be the second most useful thing to do?
27:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4623
It's going to be very relevant to my work.
27:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4634
It's just I was hacking in these patterns.
27:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4643
And for the pattern hacking, it's easier for me to think in Python DKI than in AI SDK.
27:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4651
Okay.
27:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4669
What's the number two thing that would be helpful besides that?
27:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4670
Request?
27:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4681
For us to do to like your life is easier model.
27:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4682
And then it has a WebSocket connection to a DO that records all of the messages.
27:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4693
Everything I can think of, think about is coming down to latency.
27:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4709
Latency and the sets, not that you can improve it, but
28:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4721
I'm making suboptimal decisions all the time because I'm afraid it's going to go too slow.
28:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4732
And so that collects all the data.
28:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4748
It is basically the key concern that I think about because in terms of the interaction, with a user, I think that's going to be the most obvious thing when it's going to be basically shit, even worse than like showing the wrong thing.
28:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4755
So there is a whole range from hard devs are building something that I think is going to be really bad latency because of the patterns they've used.
28:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4799
So it starts from being able to see it well
28:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4827
on the dashboard.
28:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4837
Yeah.
28:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4840
So see where the latency is coming from and like where it's coming from.
28:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4841
And also how much worse it is than when I have my toy app on the side.
28:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4855
Right?
28:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4872
So basically being able to see the stat and like, I mean, like actual stats, not the average, because average is really hard.
28:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4873
It hides the whole LLM calculation and how long search takes and all those things.
28:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4896
I would really like to understand their implementation of the problem and my implementation of the problem in the handshake and the first connection time, whatever it is that can be done.
28:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4911
Like that would be helpful because it helps me have conversation with them.
29:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4943
Guys, this is very cute.
29:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4956
I know you like to do these things this way, but it just doesn't work.
29:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4961
It's like too short.
29:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4976
So that's first thing to have basically a data-driven conversation about this approach doesn't work.
29:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4980
That's the first one.
29:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4995
Then I don't really know in the middle
29:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-4999
how exactly to manage making things better.
29:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5007
I guess that's where...
29:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5014
Yeah, yeah, agent stuff.
29:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5018
Yeah, it's like
29:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5022
I know you guys can't do fuck around or whatever, but I wish someone will literally spend a ton of time and figure out these are our top three models.
29:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5025
This is a little bit of PR that we do.
29:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5055
And the reason we do it is because we found that you actually can do the fast one with 500 tokens of reasoning.
29:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5065
It's still super fast at the time to first bite, but it's actually smart like the other one.
30:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5088
That's actually some combination.
30:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5106
So we're figuring out which models and.
30:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5110
Which...
30:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5117
Yeah, and it's not exactly which model, but basically, if someone tests, like, these models are okay, you can actually have some reasoning here.
30:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5118
Because if you think about how would I test it today?
30:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5142
How would I test it today?
30:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5153
I would have to hack it up on my backend and then running it through the tunnel of Cloudflare and then measuring responses and always wonder, well, is it in the Cloudflare?
30:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5159
That's giving me slightly different latency.
30:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5191
Or is it that obviously I have my LLM observability, but it's in a completely different place.
30:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5197
So it's these little experiments, which are Not too hard to implement, like if you change a model, but they are really hard to measure.
30:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5214
Yeah.
30:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5239
So that's the answer.
30:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5240
It's almost like if you just had something that you could do like a.
30:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5244
Prompt.
30:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5258
To copy for your specific use case.
30:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5259
Right.
31:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5266
And then just like get results for like each of the different models.
31:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5267
Yeah.
31:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5280
Or replay the same conversation somehow.
31:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5281
Yeah.
31:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5287
Replay the same conversation somehow a few times.
31:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5288
Yeah.
31:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5296
And just changing the backend.
31:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5297
That would be great.
31:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5302
Probably too hard.
31:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5306
But like even a set of simple set of some best practices around Drunk.
31:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5309
We see that this is Drunk.
31:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5323
B is sharding in a DIA and.
31:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5329
We want to make it large or whatever are basically killing your latency more.
31:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5336
Probably not.
31:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5350
Honestly, I haven't found anything like that because people can deal with a lot of latency.
31:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5352
There is a lot of experiential things that I think would stop people from starting when it's You should never do it.
31:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5368
Sorry.
31:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5390
Example being, we are testing all this when we're at home on 500 megabit Wi-Fi.
31:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5391
Yeah.
31:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5406
Have no idea how the slow experience will be even worse when I'm there on the corner and I'm between two hotspots.
31:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5407
And it's basically one of, you know, like in London, in so many places, we are just like one bar 5G.
32:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5429
Yeah.
32:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5450
Probably with us, like one bar on each side.
32:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5451
So, something, but like if you had a way...
32:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5460
Testing all these, you know how in Chrome it's just like there is an on 256.
32:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5469
Yeah, yeah.
32:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5485
Sorry, 256.
32:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5487
I'm on edge or whatever.
32:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5489
Yeah.
32:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5494
If there was a way to artificially create some of these slowdown where dev at a computer would be able to go like see how it looks like when you're on that shit cover, that will be huge to like drive that empathy.
32:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5495
But the problem is devs probably don't want that.
32:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5538
It's the people who care about the experience, about that.
32:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5547
Yeah.
32:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5557
So I'm not sure you will say anything.
32:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5558
But that will be huge.
32:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5566
You will.
32:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5571
At some point you must.
32:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5573
So yeah, definitely this is like, well.
32:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5578
Devs do it for free, right?
32:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5585
I'm like, I mean, you're a dev.
32:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5591
Like, or you've been maybe, I think.
32:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5598
Our devs are more like, we have, we have 150 things to build.
32:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5605
We have time to build 50.
32:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5618
Yeah.
33:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5624
And we need to make it.
33:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5625
We're like driving like crazy so we don't have time to fuck around.
33:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5631
Tell us what you need to build and we will build it for you.
33:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5644
Right?
33:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5658
It's not that they don't care, it's just, getting them to do these things.
33:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5659
I think they just don't have a bandwidth.
33:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5673
They are like, they're already running at 100 miles an hour.
33:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5681
Iron Wolf's agent is meant to like do all the things that should be fought, which is complete nonsense, but like basically they are completely killed on the scope.
33:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5692
So because everyone's like, oh, you need to be honest to do this really fast because of all the agents.
33:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5721
So that's where having a way to quickly show to someone rather than running 100 experiments, it can be actually a powerful way to do a conversation.
33:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5741
The other thing, because they are putting everything in this like VPC on cubes, I have no idea how that experience is going to be.
33:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5768
Obviously if I have the data that I can show that, if we had a simulator
33:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5793
and some good measurements in the console even or something simple that you can do.
33:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5809
Oh yeah, you actually have a lot of power.
33:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5824
Anyway, I was basically thinking how can we fast, right?
33:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5833
Architecture decision to quickly testing it to basically check whether it's because this is like so I'm like, any other experience?
34:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5843
Hi everyone.
34:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5864
Hi everyone.
34:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5866
How are you all?
34:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5868
I'm sorry.
34:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5872
I'm late.
34:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5874
I'm like any other experience.
34:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5876
This one is like so grounded in latency.
34:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5881
That's why I'm obsessing about it.
34:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5889
And the last end of it is, it's a big wish.
34:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5895
Jack from higher.
34:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5906
Nice to meet you.
34:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5909
Wonderful friends.
34:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5913
Oh boy, we're now just enjoying because they successfully integrated.
34:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5915
Yeah, maybe we can try and mock something up.
34:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5925
Like just knock like quick.
34:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5934
Because I guess it's just like about recording.
34:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5939
Yeah.
34:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5947
And ultimately, like, you get a bunch of requests, but then you, you, yeah.
34:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5948
But you want to know really, like.
34:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5962
Yeah, I, I kind of don't know exactly what I want to hear.
34:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5969
Yeah.
34:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5982
Because there are several different tasks.
34:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5983
One task is how can I, from the beginning, start from a good set of principles that this works 80% of the time?
34:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-5989
Yeah.
34:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6012
So I don't waste time even testing things I shouldn't be.
34:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6013
I can come prepared to our desks and be like, Hey guys, we cannot do this.
35:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6024
We can't do this, you know, like that stuff.
35:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6040
Even some stats around, if you like hack it up and measure it in your network inspector.
35:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6049
Well, have a look at those things.
35:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6066
Okay.
35:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6073
And it takes more than 1.5 seconds when you try it, your customer will notice.
35:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6074
You know, we don't even know.
35:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6089
It doesn't make sense.
35:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6095
Yeah, I feel like you're trying to translate the numbers that I can show them in a dashboard.
35:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6099
Yeah, we do real experiences, right?
35:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6117
Like this is like 0.3 seconds.
35:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6123
What does that mean?
35:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6129
What is, is 1.5 seconds a long time or is it not?
35:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6133
Like it's like, it goes back to that empathy of like being able to like see the numbers and link them to experience or having a way to show them the experience.
35:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6145
Um, but at the very end of it is, and that will be a real killer for me is there is going to be this tension between small fast models and then everyone who have their actually chatbot that they are using everywhere else, but it's too sloth thing, right?
35:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6177
And like, how do you bridge that?
36:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6227
And if you guys can come up with some patterns, which could be just keep the conversation going in the background and make it really easy to set up, right?
36:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6234
Just simple conversational non-committal, be very safe.
36:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6264
There's this like whole on every tool call, you know, like some of those patterns, they don't even need to be like new approach to create.
36:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6271
But they could go really far to know how to basically push the system because I am half expecting I will have to do that anyway because we are already on Gemini 2.5 and I am not seeing great performance on the search quality and I'm worried we will have to drive the whole checkout and the checkout happens at the end of the session where potentially the context is going to be pretty long if someone goes back and forth.
36:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6297
So I'm worried to basically involve I will not have enough intelligence to success to sell through.
36:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6378
Card manipulation and check out by the end of it.
36:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6395
And I keep thinking about, well, what can I do here?
37:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6405
Can I more aggressively keep shaking the context?
37:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6416
Yeah.
37:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6424
Or can I potentially have a smarter model like Sonnet 4.5, but tap into it only sometimes?
37:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6425
Maybe I can be driving the simple model virtually, but some tools I actually want to make sure are only done by the right people.
37:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6442
Yeah.
37:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6467
All those things when you know what you want, you can prefer.
37:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6468
It's not coming down.
37:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6480
But it's knowing which ones to actually just pick.
37:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6484
So it's like kind of knowing where the potential to improve it is.
37:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6493
Or having a few patterns that you can start with that are really simple to bootstrap.
37:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6506
They give you 80% of the output.
37:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6522
But even some of these patterns, I have done deep research every other day.
37:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6529
And there is just not much stuff how to affect the rebel voice agents and bridge this like, intelligent versus later to get.
37:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6543
Yeah, we did.
37:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6566
We're here.
37:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6569
Like, on the site, I'm gonna try and write up some of the stuff we had, but, like, I don't think there's any, this answers any of yours.
37:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6571
We had, like, an interesting one yesterday that was like, someone was having issues with, like, bad quality audio, and then he was just like, when the audio quality is bad, the agent just says, can you speak up?
38:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6599
And then, because I can't hear you.
38:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6638
And it just, like, solved, like, 90 of the problems because it was like, they just.
38:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6645
I'm with you.
38:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6661
I'm doing.
38:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6664
I'm eating your job.
38:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6666
Like, they just usually people know.
38:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6670
To like improve the quality usually it's like using their headphones.
38:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6676
Yeah.
38:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6687
Switch to like their phone or something.
38:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6688
Those are great tips.
38:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6695
And then so like we want to write up those.
38:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6699
I don't know if we have like other one best prep.
38:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6709
I mean like that was one thing I found.
38:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6720
I don't think it's fixed yet.
38:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6729
But I kept getting really good voice performance from the 11 labs playground.
38:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6735
And first message in layer code was always really shit.
38:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6748
Very like mechanical.
38:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6758
Yeah.
38:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6761
Almost like sounding from a trash.
38:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6762
Yeah.
38:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6768
Turns out.
38:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6769
And then basically three turns out.
38:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6771
I think
38:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6777
they are pushing some basically warm up text for their product line.
39:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6779
It's still going to get below five.
39:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6791
Which then means it basically continues.
39:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6798
And it doesn't have that weird wrap up in the beginning.
39:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6804
Yeah.
39:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6815
When the parachute is basically already.
39:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6816
Yeah.
39:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6822
And then completely took it out.
39:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6823
I was basically generating all these audio files and that's how I found that there's this previous text.
39:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6829
Yeah.
39:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6847
If you send that.
39:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6848
You remove most of these artifacts.
39:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6852
So you send a Walmart text that you don't play.
39:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6858
Yeah, exactly.
39:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6868
Eleven Labs API already has that.
39:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6870
And they even have that you can be linking your past requests.
39:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6876
So you don't even have to be sending it.
39:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6888
They can literally do requests that link to each other.
39:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6897
You guys just don't have that exposed in your backend.
39:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6907
I think I mentioned it.
39:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6917
It's in the chat.
39:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6922
But that one is an easy win.
39:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6926
I can do that.
39:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6933
Like every, almost every time I start a app, it starts with like very mechanic sounding
39:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6937
welcome to our shop here.
39:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6953
Oh, it's like, by the way, if you are viewing me or my friends extend you need to get receipts.
39:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6958
He says something like, thanks, thanks.
40:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6978
Oh, yeah.
40:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6984
Oh, it was cold.
40:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6986
Don't worry.
40:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6990
I can think I can share it.
40:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6992
Pretty sure that's against TM events.
40:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-6999
Just turn that out again.
40:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7005
They try to get me like video.
40:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7010
I don't know why.
40:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7017
Yeah.
40:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7021
Oh, my God.
40:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7022
Do you have a group?
40:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7025
That's amazing.
40:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7030
Yeah.
40:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7032
So we need.
40:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7033
It's capital big capital events.
40:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7036
There's like, yeah, we've got until 9, I think, but, yeah, Phil, you don't, obviously don't.
40:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7041
I literally live from 10.
40:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7057
I do 10 minutes.
40:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7062
Oh, nice.
40:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7066
It was very convenient.
40:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7068
Yeah.
40:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7072
Okay, nice.
40:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7073
It's a nice area.
40:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7075
Have you been here before?
40:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7079
Two minutes.
40:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7084
Yeah.
40:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7086
Because I, I don't want to say.
40:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7087
Only the actual, only the nightclub, yeah.
40:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7094
So actually not.
40:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7101
So we have a golden doodle.
40:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7104
But we don't, we don't, golden doodle.
40:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7110
It's one of those like, really mix.
41:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7117
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7124
We've been here for woofmas, literally in this very space.
41:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7129
Woofmas.
41:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7139
That was literally sent out that they would put the dogs.
41:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7140
I left, but like, my wife was very much into it.
41:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7151
So it was like a Christmas for people who don't have kids and have only dogs.
41:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7162
That's how we ended.
41:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7178
Oh my God, that was so funny.
41:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7182
I don't want to talk about my ministry experience.
41:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7189
Okay, that's my photo is going to be something crazy.
41:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7198
Like, it's just like ministry.
41:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7208
Sadly not.
41:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7213
Yeah, yeah.
41:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7215
I got it.
41:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7217
People actually, anything, anything true to is usually a good dog.
41:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7220
I like, my parents have a cockapoo.
41:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7231
She's quite chill.
41:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7238
Like, oh, that's right.
41:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7241
She's like very, she's just very chill.
41:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7245
She's very happy to see you, but she's not like annoying because we've got, they look after some other dogs sometimes and like, they're really like hyper, but she's, she's pretty chill.
41:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7252
Tell me how, she's kind of an.
41:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7284
Old lady, so it's just, that's probably why it's like, it's like a bit.
42:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7291
Then just generated
42:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7305
exactly, like first again, you know, we do this as tooling within the screen.
42:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7308
The real time stuff is pretty exciting.
42:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7322
I don't know.
42:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7329
It's like it feels, it allows a.
42:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7332
Lot of cool stuff.
42:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7339
But the thing is, you can do all that stuff without the real time changes.
42:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7343
I feel like the tone of voice though, right?
42:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7358
That is, yeah, harder to do.
42:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7367
I've been looking a lot into voice cloning and then the remixing of it.
42:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7373
And it doesn't work as well as we thought.
42:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7387
Basically, unless you're American, it's really hard to clone so fast with three minutes or less.
42:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7396
Oh yeah.
42:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7412
So we're figuring out where is the threshold if our brands have like northern,
42:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7414
but yeah, American, like one minute.
42:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7428
I claimed mine and it was like perfect, but I put like, I put over 100 minutes, I think, of like, oh, I think it was like with like a real microphone and stuff.
42:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7434
That's the other thing.
43:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7468
Most people can't record anything, a little bit of background noise and for removal, it should distort it as well.
43:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7472
Yeah, yeah.
43:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7492
But they literally say in one lives, they say that three minutes, you know.
43:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7494
It wasn't mine sound, the three minutes one sounded nothing like me at all.
43:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7508
100 minutes was like, I showed it to my mom and she was like, this sounds like you.
43:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7522
I know.
43:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7540
It sounded exactly like me.
43:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7542
Must be easier when you do podcasts.
43:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7547
I don't think I ever recorded it.
43:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7554
It's actually a lot because it's like, if you think like, when you're at, it's actually like, even if the episode is like an hour, it was only like eight minutes or less probably of me speaking.
43:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7561
So it has to get like a lot because, I mean, I, I don't speak that much in it.
43:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7598
So I was many asked questions.
43:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7617
So especially, but it was like a lot.
43:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7623
So it was quite easy to.
43:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7631
It.
44:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7637
Was actually quite easy to, I feel like, they should actually just have a tool because like, I think I can't remember what exactly, but it's one of the features on FMPeg, you can actually like just strip out all the silence really easily.
44:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7638
So if you just get the track that's just your voice, you can just like strip out all the silence on
44:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7682
the VLP.
44:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7703
So I feel like it would be easier if you could just dump tons and tons of audio.
44:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7705
Yeah, but then you get...
44:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7723
And they would cut them.
44:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7728
Then you get into this weird state that we were basically, it was picking up too well the pacing and everything.
44:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7733
So the American guy, it was perfect how his voice sounded, but he read really boring FT article.
44:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7754
And literally the voice of the shop was this like really bored American.
44:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7772
Like it literally picks up the pacing and everything.
44:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7785
So I think when you chop it up and lose the gat, so they are natural, it's going to pick it up as well.
44:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7794
So actually that I would be worried about.
45:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7818
Oh, so like cut, so I should have just left in the gaps.
45:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7826
I would say you can cut out the gaps, but you need to be clear about not collapsing it too much.
45:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7839
It's hard because unless you have like a monologue, like if it's in a conversation, I cut out the gaps, I also have to cut out the other person, and then it's like, so then you don't get the gap anyway, so.
45:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7860
It'S like, well, it's fine as long as you As long as it delivers your full range and there is nothing blending, so you still need to leave some islands basically.
45:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7902
That's what I mean, like completely cutting it off.
45:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7933
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7942
That's just, you know, basically.
45:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7946
What we're now doing is basically we have like a vocabulary that we found somewhere like phonetic stuff, like with dunk twisters and things to have a full coverage of the language and most important things.
45:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7951
Then we need to develop a brand specific one for their key products because those can be hardly mispronounced.
45:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-7987
Yeah.
45:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8006
And then we're figuring out what will be the other fillers and problem with news, which is like perfect infinite content, is that people will stop doing the inflections when they speak and then that then translates into their voice.
45:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8007
Like most people will struggle to record even two minutes in.
46:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8047
We still haven't figured out the cloning and the remixing doesn't work very well.
46:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8058
Who do they want to do the voice?
46:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8072
You should.
46:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8080
Who should the voice be?
46:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8082
It's kind of assumptions.
46:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8087
RPMs don't talk to customers enough, but basically they think it's going to be easier if we basically disagree with brands.
46:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8091
You need to give us these recordings as per the instructions and there will be a brand voice.
46:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8112
Because that way they defined the pace, the tone, the emphasis.
46:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8130
There's so much that I don't even know how to describe.
46:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8141
Do you think they do want to control?
46:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8152
I don't think they want it.
46:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8160
But it's easier to define it and iterate on their own than us building a playground where they have all these like police and different voices to pick from.
46:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8166
So ultimately there is always a founder or someone who has a cool voice that they're going to identify as.
47:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8195
Ultimately it's going to be which accent, which gender, and basically a deep low And then how do you want to convey the energy?
47:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8215
I think those are the main directions.
47:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8239
But it's really hard to get right just with like remixing or whatever.
47:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8246
It feels easier just by his voice.
47:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8259
So it's a guess.
47:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8266
We have so many of these that.
47:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8270
It'S still kind of...
47:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8277
We shot from...
47:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8281
Silik is quite Natsa.
47:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8284
But like in We Need Docs.
47:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8288
We should say the rendering thing is to download the one stop
47:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8294
and then improve the code.
47:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8306
Do you think you'll be using real-time voice in six months?
47:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8311
Did you prefer to do that instead?
48:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8322
Because me personally, when you do this.
48:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8329
You get like, or for this product.
48:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8336
Yeah, your work how it's going to be.
48:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8343
So to be clear, I use speech attacks quite heavily when I'm at homes for all coding.
48:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8351
But like these voice agents,
48:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8368
I do think it's gonna work.
48:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8373
I don't think it's gonna be, I don't think it's gonna be the best thing ever because it's effectively competing with JGPGUI, I think.
48:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8379
And it doesn't have the same.
48:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8403
Yeah, this is all recording, right?
48:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8409
It's okay.
48:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8415
Yeah, it's a good point.
48:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8417
It doesn't have the biggest benefit.
48:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8422
We will try to do a technically align to fishing industry and different things.
48:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8428
But what I think we will always struggle with is that we don't have the spend on multiple brands.
48:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8442
That's where we started.
49:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8461
But we realized you can't cold start it.
49:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8465
So we will start from the brand specifically.
49:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8473
And that's the biggest problem.
49:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8481
I don't think it's going to be whether it's a voice, whether the voice is fluent.
49:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8486
Enough, it's really going to be, when I'm in the store, I want to buy this outfit, but they do jackets and I need to go another store and they do pants.
49:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8502
And then the ideal app like ChatGPT is basically, I want an outfit for this event.
49:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8534
I think that's the app.
49:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8550
So I think it's going to work.
49:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8555
I think all brands will want their own experience, compete with ChatGPT, which basically makes it nameless and drives down the price swap.
49:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8562
But I don't think the huge volume will all move to brand specific.
49:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8585
Haha, Angel, it will be my best.
49:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8598
Yeah.
49:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8605
Because, you know, I think it would just be,
49:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8606
I don't think it's gonna be to GPT.
49:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8615
I think it's gonna be vertically.
49:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8623
Oh, sorry.
49:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8629
So yeah, so like, for example, I want to buy a new, you know, like men's fashion app, could you chat to?
49:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8631
Yeah.
50:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8653
And then it's like, got a cool brand to that.
50:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8654
Yeah.
50:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8664
And those apps already exist and while they're growing, they're nowhere near to GPT because when you're only problem of getting in is that like GPT does everything.
50:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8665
Only have one subscription.
50:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8693
So even if they do this right job, it's going to be impossible to get out of you.
50:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8697
Yeah.
50:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8715
Because you just have them.
50:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8716
It's the best thing for us.
50:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8721
You're okay waiting.
50:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8727
So cautious.
50:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8730
Like they can say whatever, like they even build.
50:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8732
I don't know if you know Pulse.
50:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8741
Pulse.
50:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8748
Pulse.
50:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8749
Pulse.
50:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8750
Chigi Pulse.
50:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8751
Yeah.
50:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8753
It's like a feed or that you get every day.
50:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8754
I actually said it.
50:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8764
I'm looking for a jacket.
50:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8768
These are the things I'm looking for.
50:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8773
Or even you will discuss buying this article next day in your daily update.
50:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8780
It will find a bunch of new products that you missed and literally expose them in this like daily update, this pulse.
50:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8794
It has all these different channels into your life and it's like constant contact.
51:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8816
And on top of it, it's like VC subsidized models and patents which are already established.
51:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8830
So I think it's going to be really hard for anyone to really kill that.
51:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8846
Yeah.
51:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8861
Um, otherwise they can do their own work.
51:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8862
And like anything you can build, they can build too.
51:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8870
It's so, I don't think it's going to be the biggest one.
51:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8880
So there's, yeah, so many vertical voices.
51:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8892
That are going to totally, that's no, I think.
51:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8899
So when we talked, she's telling me about critical.
51:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8908
Yeah.
51:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8917
I still do think there is a lot of stuff that can be done with voice.
51:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8918
All of that.
51:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8934
So painful.
51:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8937
I would love to control more of my life with voice.
51:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8939
Right now, you like to run your voice.
51:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8950
Control more of my life with your voice.
51:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8958
The Alexa dream kind of thing.
51:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8966
Yes.
51:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8972
Like if I...
51:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8973
And the heck out of...
51:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8976
If I'm gonna be hacking, I'm basically gonna be playing something.
51:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8981
That I can cloth code multiple sessions when I'm walking or when I'm like around because I don't like to be chained to my phone.
52:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-8992
Yeah.
52:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9017
It's not much better.
52:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9018
Yeah.
52:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9022
I always can be tuned to my desk.
52:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9023
Yeah.
52:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9031
You like to be outside walking.
52:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9032
Yeah.
52:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9038
Like when I'm looking to a photo.
52:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9039
Yeah.
52:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9046
I agree.
52:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9047
I feel like I got more good stuff done.
52:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9049
But for that, I think you need to solve also the digital twin problem.
52:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9058
Yeah.
52:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9072
Because you need to do this like a compression of what's on the screen.
52:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9073
There's like so much you visually can comprehend, you do code code whatever.
52:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9087
And if you know what you care about in the days for in the next steps or whatever, you let me know.
52:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9100
You don't want to compress it.
52:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9122
So you need something that knows what you're looking for in it.
52:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9128
And that should be passed as voice.
52:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9140
And I give it some guidance as a voice, but that voice was translated.
52:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9147
Yeah.
52:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9161
So that's why I think the unlock there is something that's like really to do.
52:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9162
It's almost like oh when they got blocked.
52:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9177
Yeah.
52:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9185
Yeah.
52:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9186
You've been doing this time.
53:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9187
Yeah.
53:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9192
Can you pass me the mic?
53:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9193
Yes.
53:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9199
Yeah.
53:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9200
Sorry, this is so far.
53:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9201
Okay.
53:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9206
Free audio post production
53:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9207
by alphonic.com.
53:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/11#word-9211

-----

Episode: Zack Moy from Afterword #1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10

Laws in Canada.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-0
Is it two-party consent basically?
0:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3
Always?
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-8
I think it might be one party.
0:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-9
Okay, well, I mean, I appreciate you asking, but yeah, go for it.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-16
Yeah, amazing.
0:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-29
I just put it on there.
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-31
Yeah, it's one party in Canada.
0:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-37
Fascinating.
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-43
Yeah.
0:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-44
Zach, I just realized I just wanted to answer your questions that you put in the Slack as well before going.
0:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-45
Oh, yeah, sure.
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-66
I mean, we could do it.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-69
We could do your first and then we can go to my questions.
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-75
That's fine.
0:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-88
Yeah.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-90
Yeah.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-91
Okay.
0:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-92
It was going to be, like, pretty quick anyway, to be honest.
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-93
That was, like, I could just tell you, and then we.
0:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-105
But, yeah, basically, we.
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-116
We're just testing with twilio.
0:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-120
Like, we.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-125
It is working, but, like, just creating, like, all the docs around it and stuff, so that.
0:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-127
That's.
0:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-144
And.
0:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-145
And we do have outbound, like, at least, like, we've been testing.
0:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-146
That I'm able to put in an arbitrary phone number, make a call.
0:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-158
But we'll put some kind of more concrete stuff with that as we put it out there.
1:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-171
Do you mean the outbound part?
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-188
Yeah, outbound, outbound.
1:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-194
So I think if there's at least you're able to put in a phone number and make the call.
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-197
Yeah.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-216
And like we're not, there's a few different use cases for that on our side.
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-217
Like one could be, there's a company that just launched, which I think it's kind of interesting, but like one of them is like chasing down physicians or doctors to sign a death certificate.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-232
And like that's a pretty generic script you could probably give to a, to an agent, an agent and say like here, the doctor's name is Dr.
1:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-266
Smith.
1:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-293
This in calling in regards to so and so, like can you just confirm that they're going to get a death certificate?
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-294
It's like a friendly reminder.
1:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-316
That's a pretty easy one.
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-321
But other people have asked for an automated call to the family even that has a little script or something.
1:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-326
I don't think they're going to be full-fledged conversations.
2:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-346
It's almost like a voice-based reminder.
2:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-355
That's such an interesting one.
2:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-361
Would that call be the call that notifies the family or is it a fall, they know the relative has passed and it's a procedural call after that?
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-366
I think it's like a follow up and it's with the families that they've already talked to.
2:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-394
So it's not like calling a net new person.
2:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-411
That's probably not something we would do.
2:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-420
Yeah, yeah, totally.
2:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-427
That's interesting.
2:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-430
Yeah.
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-432
Okay, cool.
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-433
Yeah.
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-435
What stuff do you guys have?
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-436
Because I've already taken up.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-442
Sorry, Zach.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-447
I was just gonna say.
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-449
Oh, sorry, Jack.
2:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-454
I was gonna say on the SOC 2 stuff.
2:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-457
Oh, yeah, go ahead.
2:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-466
I think that's a Q4 thing, but we'll circle back with a more clear date as soon as we have one on that.
2:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-470
I know that was already something you were talking to Stuart about.
2:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-493
Okay, got it.
2:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-505
Yeah, I don't know what that means for us if I'm being honest, but we'll think through that when we get to that.
3:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-508
We just ended our type 2 observation period.
3:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-531
We're just waiting for the actual report.
3:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-539
And so anytime we launch with a new integration partner, we just need to verify that they have done all the right precautions.
3:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-546
But even if you guys were like in observation or something like that, that's probably good enough to be able to be like, okay, like we're working through it.
3:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-569
I'm assuming you guys are gonna do-.
3:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-598
Quickly as possible, yeah.
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-605
So I can, I'll check in with Erin on that, 'cause she's leading that.
3:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-609
I don't have the latest on where it is as of this call, but we can definitely circle back there.
3:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-623
I think, yeah.
3:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-643
So you in observation stage would be like the first checkpoint you guys would need.
3:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-646
I again, I don't know.
3:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-661
Like it would depend on what like we're using Delve, Delve.co, which is one of the AI security companies.
3:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-666
So presumably, like when I add you guys into our dashboard as an integrator, I just need to say, like, here's how it's secure essentially.
4:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-685
And it's only if we get audited.
4:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-710
But I don't think we're going to do an observation period until much later anyway.
4:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-717
So we might be okay.
4:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-732
I just like, if we talk about this, we have this big conference coming at the end of October, sort of like the dream force of the funeral world, which is just a fascinating experience.
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-737
If you're in Chicago in October and want to see a wild time, let us know.
4:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-772
But we
4:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-788
might, I don't know if we're going to launch anything by then, but we'll probably want to mention and have some sort of workable prototypes or demos that we can showcase there.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-790
So as long as we're not actively launched, that's technically Q4.
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-822
So I think we'll be okay.
4:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-833
Okay.
4:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-839
Yeah, that's great.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-840
Those are really good contexts and notes.
4:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-843
I'll relay that to Aaron.
4:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-850
We can kind of
4:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-855
have a more meaningful discussion there on that of exactly where we're at and those timelines, maybe once we get through the Twilio stuff.
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-859
I think that's going to be coming very soon.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-883
Okay, great.
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-892
Okay.
5:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-894
Amazing.
5:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-895
Okay, Zach.
5:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-896
So, technical Advisory board.
5:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-898
So we'd love to just kind of really.
5:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-902
It's kind of like therapy, hopefully for, like, voice AI and, like, I know it's pretty early, but, um, all these questions are just, like, around building voice AI and your experiences and.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-910
Challenges.
5:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-943
And I know, yeah, it's actually probably just the first question is like, have you started to prototype stuff at all?
5:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-944
Yeah.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-965
Or like.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-966
Yeah, yeah.
5:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-968
So we have, I think we first started with your hosted backend and just sort of prompt engineering.
5:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-970
What is the right balance of directions and step-by-step instructions?
5:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-988
Versus
6:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-998
we had tried other tools, right, where you're building full workflow based, where are you in the decision tree?
6:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-999
And we actually found that that's problematic because it's really easy to get stuck in a weird loop.
6:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1018
And then you're like, how do you have all these escape conditions?
6:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1036
It's really, really complex versus I think the models have gotten better with context windows where we can just have one prompt and it manages the whole thing.
6:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1048
We've started with that, but then once we knew we wanted to do something with Twilio and be able to extract information out of that, maybe do our own tool calling and that sort of thing, that's when we moved into, okay, we could switch this to our hosted backend and our server and then be able to handle that.
6:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1076
We have a version of that as well.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1136
Then thanks to you guys launching Twilio, we have that.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1144
There's a number I can call right now that will pretend to be one of our customers.
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1154
Receptionists and we've used that just to sort of gut check that we have the right building blocks.
6:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1171
I think the reason we haven't pushed forward on that is call recording because we know we just know we're going to need that.
6:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1189
So we've sort of waited for that and then the minute we do that, we'll continue with the prototyping process.
7:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1213
Okay, that's amazing.
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1233
Thank you for the context.
7:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1236
One very quick question just for my own interest.
7:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1241
Are you using any frameworks for like building the kind of agent side of it on your own backend?
7:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1250
I had asked you guys about this and I'm sort of torn because I don't know if we...
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1269
So the short answer is no.
7:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1287
We're literally using one of the examples you guys put together, but it's hosted on Cloud Run on GCP.
7:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1293
We have a ton of
7:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1312
Google credits that are actually expiring in like a month.
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1317
So I'm just like, I will blow through all of them if I need to.
7:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1327
So just using their various models.
7:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1342
But on their infrastructure.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1348
So not an issue, right?
7:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1352
I think down the road, we might switch to some sort of framework if we want to do more structured tool calling and variable extraction and stuff like that.
7:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1357
But I don't know if our calls are so complicated that we actually need that just yet.
8:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1386
Okay.
8:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1403
That's a super helpful background.
8:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1404
Actually, one other thing, sorry, is in a lot of our calls, we've gone through a few different examples.
8:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1409
One reason or pro for using a framework It's like, I need to do eight different tool calls.
8:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1428
I need to do obituary lookup and create case tool and then edit case tool and all those sorts of things.
8:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1446
And I'm sort of like, I would rather load all the context it needs in memory.
8:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1467
So like tool call find obituary.
8:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1483
No, just load every obituary in the next two weeks into memory.
8:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1489
You know, that or any, any, you know, go a week back and go anything that hasn't happened yet.
8:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1501
Load that in the memory and that's fine.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1520
And then for all the like, create a case, update a case, do this, do that.
8:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1528
I would almost just do that once the session's done, take the whole transcript, take the whole variable extraction, save that somewhere, and then do post-processing there versus doing a tool call.
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1544
That's my thought, because then all we have to optimize is latency and actually handling the call.
9:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1576
That's really, really interesting.
9:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1593
I don't know if that's right or wrong.
9:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1597
I'm just trying to think about simplifying that part of the code, right?
9:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1605
Yeah.
9:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1618
Yeah.
9:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1619
That should make the latency better for sure.
9:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1620
If it's like, you're like, all about to off so cool.
9:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1628
I don't want it to have to call anything.
9:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1639
Like, I just want to be able to, you know, it basically is the, the LLM and like what, what CPU and RAM that I put on the server, basically.
9:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1648
Yeah.
9:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1678
And I guess a human might do it that way as well, where they just make a note or something they need to do kind of.
9:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1679
Yeah, like the incumbent that I mentioned before, they'll take notes in their system, they'll print out, it's called first call sheets.
9:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1705
That's just essentially like a summary of everything they talked about.
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1727
Yeah, that makes sense.
10:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1738
And Zach, one question that we really like to ask, if there's anything about building with voice AI that you could wave a magic wand at, and make it better or make it exist,
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1742
what would you wave the magic wand at?
10:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1776
Good question.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1784
I mean, this is a problem across the whole space, but probably to do with testing evaluation sets, things like that.
10:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1786
Because if I change the prompt ever so slightly, I want to make sure it doesn't break anything.
10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1807
And so I know some of the other providers have the concept of running evaluation tests, which I know is less on the voice side.
10:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1825
It's basically just testing the text that the LLM is returning.
10:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1850
But even that, I think, would be huge if you guys could work something like that into the platform.
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1861
How would it change your life if we had that?
11:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1880
How would it change my life if we had that?
11:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1890
I think we could move a lot faster.
11:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1900
Because if I change the prompt, the only way I can test right now is by calling it or maybe just doing the LLM stuff on my side, like with that endpoint.
11:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1908
I could build all that myself if I want, but it would be great if it was somehow factored into this.
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1940
Just because I've seen it with so many other platforms.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1961
Maybe you guys will never do it and that's fine too.
11:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1971
But if it's just the infrastructure, that's great.
11:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1982
But testing it is almost as important to me as the infra.
11:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-1990
There's a company we're using called extend.ai.
11:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2002
It's for document processing, classification, extraction, all that sort of stuff.
11:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2009
If you log into their product and check it out, they do a really great job with evaluation sets.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2020
That you can run against different versions of various processors and it'll show you
12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2039
the diff of, hey, this increase, this decrease, that sort of thing.
12:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2053
We've been using that for part of our OCR product
12:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2065
for directors and that's been really, really helpful.
12:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2075
I'm not saying you need something exactly like that, but if I could say, hey, we're going from
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2083
this model to that model or this prompt to that prompt, how can I actually be sure that nothing's going to break?
12:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2101
Some weird edge case that we would love to test for isn't going to screw up.
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2123
Is there anything about having that that is more valuable now than it was like a year or two ago?
12:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2139
Do you mean like because the models are better or just in general?
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2159
I guess like just kind of I don't want to lead you like too much in it, but like it's like if you had to say like why this is more important Is there anything that like, this is more important today than it was like a year ago to be able to like.
13:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2172
Test what.
13:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2226
Test you're like,
13:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2228
yeah.
13:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2231
To test it, it isn't, I mean, it's, I don't think it's changed in the last year.
13:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2232
I just think it's very like, cause with the OCR stuff, for example, like if we get it wrong, they type it out anyway.
13:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2249
And it's the director that's dealing with it.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2273
If we get this wrong here, a family chooses a different funeral home and has a really bad experience on the worst day of their life.
13:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2281
The stakes are just so much higher.
13:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2307
Wow.
13:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2314
Yeah.
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2315
Yeah.
13:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2316
No pressure for everybody.
13:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2317
Yeah.
13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2321
When you put it like that, it's important.
13:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2322
Yeah.
14:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2330
And so like, you know, it's sort of like we use another company called Tusk and they have a bunch of blog posts about how they do evaluation tests against LLM based content or LLM based work.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2331
And I just think for something like this, like I would want to write essentially unit tests or evaluation tests for like somebody calls and like they're threatening their own life.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2368
Like let's have a bunch of tests for that.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2399
Somebody calls and they're in full shock, you know, like we need a triage and immediately send that to a human, like all of those sorts of big, big edge cases.
14:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2408
And then also the like, They said a homophone.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2439
Do they ask how to spell that?
14:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2448
You know, like basic things like that.
14:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2455
But I think that's just going to make this sort of thing way, way more.
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2462
Again, sorry.
14:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2477
We could build this ourselves, but if there's like some way that was baked into the infra, that would be game changing for us, I would say.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2479
Yeah.
14:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2506
Yeah.
14:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2507
I
15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2508
don't want to share prematurely, but we're hearing this a lot.
15:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2509
Is what I'll say is that this, what you describe as, like, what you would wave the magic wand at is, is actually coming up again and again.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2520
So I think this is something that we're going to think a lot about.
15:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2548
Yeah.
15:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2562
I mean, the, the llm models are not deterministic.
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2563
They're, like, probabilistic.
15:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2572
And so, like, if everything is, you never know what you're gonna get, or it's, like, a little crazy, right?
15:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2575
So like then the surface area of.
15:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2595
Weird shit on voice systems in production seems to be like it can get quite big quite quickly, right?
15:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2602
Yeah.
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2621
And I don't know how, I mean, that's like beyond everyone in this call.
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2622
Like presumably that's the model.
15:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2636
Like we just, there needs to be like global prompting that prevent that.
15:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2641
I don't know the right solution there.
15:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2654
Yeah.
15:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2661
Zach, just a couple of questions about how are you learning about voice AI at the moment or in general, best practices, how to do things?
15:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2662
Admittedly, once we started working with you guys or exploring with you guys, I stopped exploring others.
16:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2688
But most of the learning was through looking at all of their features, comparing them, and then honestly just a ton of trial and error.
16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2705
You know, and I'm, I'm only scratching the surface, right?
16:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2730
I've probably only made 100 test calls.
16:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2740
I probably need to make, like, 10, 000 to, like, really do it.
16:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2747
Right.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2760
But other than that, it's just like, I still will occasionally look at Bland's website or retail's website, or, like, I'm on their mailing lists, I think, so I get, like, all of their product updates, you know, but.
16:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2761
That's pretty much it in terms of learning what else is out there.
16:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2800
Yeah.
16:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2813
Yeah.
17:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2814
Okay, that's really helpful.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2815
Yeah, those were my core questions, actually.
17:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2819
Aiden, I don't know if you had anything.
17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2826
No, I don't think so, yeah.
17:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2834
I think.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2840
We'Re just thinking about what type of content is useful to people and what problems
17:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2842
you know, we can, we can help solve and guide people to solve.
17:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2857
And so that, you know, just knowing what you kind of pay attention to from a, I guess, like, what you're subscribed to is one thing.
17:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2870
But that, I guess, the, the follow-up question to that is, like, do you prefer newsletters, podcasts, videos?
17:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2896
Like, what should, what do you generally find is, like, the most helpful way if you're kind of seeking to learn more about how to solve the problem.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2914
I'm just curious, media diet, I guess.
17:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2942
I'm more of a, I would rather read an email or a newsletter or an article.
17:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2949
I don't want to hear people talk about it in a podcast and I don't need to see a video.
17:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2965
Yeah.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2985
My co-founder is laughing at me right now.
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2986
But like, you know, if we, if we, if we did a podcast, right, frankly be two white dudes talking about, hey, so I wanted to get this receptionist to take my restaurant order and I found out that if I did this prompt instead of that prompt, It used dim sum instead of dumpling.
18:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-2994
Like, I'd be like, this is the dumbest podcast ever.
18:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3049
I need to get a podcast.
18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3059
No, no, no, no, no.
18:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3065
What, what have you been doing a podcast for?
18:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3070
What was the initial idea?
18:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3079
Podcast.
18:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3084
Okay.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3085
Can you guys hear me?
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3086
Hello.
18:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3091
Yeah.
18:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3092
Yeah.
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3093
How's it going?
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3094
Nice to meet you.
18:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3097
This is Jack and Adam.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3101
Okay.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3106
So they were asking, like, how do we get, news about voice agents and, how what he was asking me how I would best,
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3107
how I would want to consume that media diet was the phrase he used.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3131
And I was like, absolutely not podcasts.
18:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3145
Oh, your ideas podcast, not them.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3152
No, no, no.
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3158
He was saying as like, is it newsletters?
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3161
Is it podcast?
19:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3169
And I did to be clear, like, not specifically about voice AI, it was just generally in you, like, what do you, what's your preferred method for learning?
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3172
Right.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3200
Reading or listening or watching?
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3201
And I think, oh, well, for, I.
19:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3206
Would say for technical topics, it is like written articles or tutorials.
19:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3213
I just think I've seen people do like live demos of tech in terms of how you do A versus B.
19:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3225
And I just feel like those are never like, I don't want to see you type into your terminal.
19:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3246
No, no, he's asking media diet and he gave some examples and I just said, no, no to podcasts.
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3265
I just don't think podcasts are helpful.
19:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3284
That's all.
19:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3291
Yeah.
19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3293
Big thumbs down on video and audio.
19:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3294
Yeah.
19:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3301
I mean, obviously your mileage may vary.
19:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3302
I'm going to go back headphones.
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3309
For asking again for a.
19:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3315
They waved by, by the way.
19:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3320
I just think, yeah, I don't know.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3326
Like, do other, are other engineers that you're talking to wanting videos or podcasts for this sort of thing?
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3333
I think some people.
20:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3352
I think the.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3356
Value of written content for like a technical reference is just like unquestionable.
20:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3359
I think some people like watching tutorials for technical stuff, like developer tutorials.
20:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3372
That's like a type of video that people have said to us is helpful and I know people like.
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3385
And then I think the general kind of podcast stuff, like, I completely agree with you.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3404
There's a lot of types of conversation, which is just like, it's not,
20:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3420
I would not want to be doing those, but I think Kind of an open question for us.
20:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3433
Who's interesting to chat with about what they're doing with voice?
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3451
I think maybe podcast conversations, to my preference, the more technical they get, the more you're into this should be an instructional piece of content or a doc.
20:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3462
But I think higher level, even just as an example, you guys talking about your business, it's a very interesting business.
21:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3490
You're solving some kind of novel problems with voice at a high level.
21:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3511
It's cool to hear about that kind of thing, I think, for maybe a conversation.
21:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3524
I think we're just thinking about the various levels of education, what opportunities are out there in voice.
21:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3539
And I think our team, we would rather put out less content and have it be really useful than try and do too much stuff.
21:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3557
So yeah, I'm just generally thinking about what is useful to the people that we're actually working with, because that's the best group of people I think we have in terms of
21:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3582
we already kind of know you a bit.
21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3614
Obviously like what you're doing and are interested in it.
21:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3622
So yeah, that's where the question comes from.
21:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3632
Yeah, well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there, which is if it becomes more of like an instructional technical resource, then like a doc with a guide is better.
21:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3640
If it's like a, here's something cool that you can do with voice agents that you never thought of, we're going to interview the founders of so and so company.
21:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3675
Yeah.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3705
Then a podcast makes a lot more sense because you kind of want to know their story and hear it in their own words.
22:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3706
But I think if you were to say something like, hey, we found out that if you change the turn timeout from X to Y, this is the end result in the customer experience.
22:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3730
I don't know.
22:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3764
It's like a headline.
22:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3767
That's like the headline of the blog post.
22:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3771
And then the blog post is like, here's an Roi.
22:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3779
Here's a net result.
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3789
And then here's how you change the setting right now.
22:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3793
Sign up for your layer code account, basically.
22:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3803
Right?
22:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3811
Like, I don't think it needs to be more.
22:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3812
Involved than that.
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3821
100%.
22:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3824
Yeah, I think my feeling on kind of like what we're seeing in voice is like there's two buckets of things that are really interesting.
22:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3825
One is like just unsolved technical problems everywhere.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3850
That's like interesting in a slightly different way to like people building stuff you never would have thought could exist that involves talking to computers.
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3858
And sometimes there's some overlap, but yeah.
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3883
It's super interesting just to get that perspective from you because
23:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3890
we just honestly don't even have too much of a bias or preference on this show.
23:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3901
We're just thinking about where we should put our resources.
23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3917
Yeah, I'm curious too around, do you have an email subscriber list or are you just going to be putting this on Twitter or LinkedIn or something?
23:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3927
Yeah, we have a marketing email list we've been building and just Even with building audiences on platforms, right?
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3954
It's like there's too many platforms.
23:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3973
Now we kind of have to pick, and I think LinkedIn, Twitter, useful.
23:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3979
Yeah, thinking about YouTube again, it's like lots of technical and structural tutorial type stuff plays well there and stuff.
23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-3992
But yeah, if we do ever send emails with this kind of content, I really want to make sure they're good.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4012
We probably will.
24:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4033
But.
24:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4036
The anti-goal is like sending people stuff that is just another newsletter that they don't look at.
24:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4037
The bars.
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4054
Yeah, I would agree with that.
24:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4056
I mean, I mentioned the other ones that I'm still subscribed to for whatever reason.
24:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4062
I basically only open it and say like, are there any new features I should know about?
24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4077
And then everything else is kind of thrown out the window for those companies specifically.
24:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4094
I was going to say, if you ever end up doing
24:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4109
a podcast around the companies, what you should do is have Stuart call on someone at Workday, and it's Workday, Stuart and me, and that way Workday will put it on LinkedIn too.
24:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4120
That's a good one.
24:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4153
Oh yeah.
24:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4157
If
24:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4159
you could stomach the pain of talking to people at Workday.
24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4160
That's a good idea.
24:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4171
Yeah, you said it, not me.
24:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4175
Yeah.
25:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4181
I think there are two people from Workday that I would hire.
25:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4182
Everyone else, I wouldn't.
25:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4194
You'd get them.
25:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4198
There'd be two, like, there's two engineers that I worked with where I'd be like, I would work with them again, but everybody else is probably no.
25:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4201
I never worked with Stuart directly for the record, so I'm not talking about him.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4228
No,
25:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4243
they've still have quite a big office here in Victoria from our acquisition.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4244
That's right.
25:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4257
Yeah, 100 plus people.
25:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4259
Right.
25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4263
Well, didn't.
25:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4264
Was.
25:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4266
Was.
25:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4267
I'm thinking of Juan.
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4268
Ono.
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4272
Was he in Victoria?
25:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4273
I'm not sure.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4277
He was.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4280
I've been off to my time.
25:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4282
He's in Vancouver.
25:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4288
He's in Vancouver.
25:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4291
Yeah.
25:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4294
I mainly am connected still with just like the OG Media Core group that came in with us.
25:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4295
But yeah.
25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4313
I have one last question for you, Zach.
25:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4315
Sorry.
25:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4323
No, that's good.
25:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4324
We are thinking about
26:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4327
doing some fun stuff for the members of the Technical Advisory Board.
26:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4331
This is a swag question.
26:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4343
Is there any swag that is Worth having?
26:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4348
This is a good question.
26:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4356
I think 10 years ago, I'd be like, yeah, give me whatever you got.
26:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4361
But, like, I don't actually think I have a good answer right now.
26:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4375
I think most stuff is trash.
26:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4388
Like, it ends up in the trash or, like, recycle it.
26:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4394
So, like, why are you wasting your.
26:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4405
Your venture-backed money to just, like, buy people t-shirts or whatever?
26:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4412
I would only get so she's involved now.
26:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4423
I would only.
26:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4431
I would only.
26:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4434
I would suggest.
26:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4437
This is so unlike this cover.
26:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4440
Okay.
26:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4446
What I was going to say is if you're giving us something, I want it to be functional.
26:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4447
I don't want it to be like something I wear.
26:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4465
Like a coffee mug or like something that will be helpful to me as a developer even, or like, I don't know, something like that feels way more interesting to me.
26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4475
Yeah.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4506
That's great feedback.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4507
That's great feedback.
27:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4510
For like for context, the only swag that we get now is
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4513
Funeral home swag.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4525
I also have a nail file.
27:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4528
That's a funeral home swag.
27:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4534
Hilarious.
27:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4539
Oh, that's a good one.
27:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4540
Yeah.
27:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4545
Or we have.
27:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4546
Oh, that's good.
27:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4549
We have a small casket named Mort
27:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4552
and a embalming fluid machine.
27:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4559
So, yeah, that's.
27:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4564
Oh, my God.
27:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4567
Okay, that's what you're competing against.
27:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4570
Okay.
27:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4576
That's very helpful feedback.
27:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4577
But I would also say, if you're getting swag for everybody and I'm being a, I'm poo-pooing on everything, just give it to somebody else or donate it or something.
27:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4581
I don't need it.
27:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4611
Our feeling is the same as you.
27:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4615
I think we all have way too many boxes of startup t-shirts and shit we've never worn.
27:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4622
And it's like, if we're going to do something nice, we want to do something really nice.
27:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4639
So, yeah, we're just thinking of, well, we're asking a bunch of people that question and just thinking, what would be fun.
27:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4656
So thank you for.
28:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4678
Yeah, that's a good.
28:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4682
That's good input.
28:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4686
Yeah.
28:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4689
I remember I was so excited to get socks from slack, and then I was like, this is dumb.
28:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4690
I'm never wearing, like, they're not even good.
28:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4709
Like, why am I.
28:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4717
The worst swag I ever had was my workday mug when they did the onboarding with my employee number on it.
28:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4721
Oh, yeah.
28:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4742
Yeah.
28:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4744
What a terrible culture for that.
28:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4745
You are number
28:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4751
1017.
28:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4754
So I was like, this is awful.
28:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4755
Reduced to a number on day one.
28:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4762
And then you go in a meeting and somebody walks in and their mug is like 17 and everyone treats them like they're the word of God.
28:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4769
And I'm like, dude, you're not even building a language.
28:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4796
You're literally building a UI and calling that programming.
28:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4806
So can we not?
28:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4815
It was,
28:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4819
I'll end on this because I feel like you'll appreciate this if you didn't go through something similar with them.
28:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4821
The first thing they did when they acquired our company was come and paint all of the blue things, all of the red things in the office blue.
29:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4841
They sent a guy on like 10 days after the acquisition before anyone else came to Victoria because they don't like Oracle, right?
29:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4869
Like nothing can be read at work day.
29:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4892
And we kind of asked why they were doing it and I think they said something like, well, obviously you can't have read things in the office when the senior team comes out here.
29:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4900
It's just like, that is the weirdest piece of culture that I can remember.
29:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4934
It's a cult, yeah.
29:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4948
But like they all are.
29:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4952
I was gonna say, if you have to send us something.
29:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4957
We don't have to send you something.
29:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4968
Well, Effie is texting or messaging me right now, but her's idea is way better, which is don't give us swag, give us free credits.
29:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-4975
That's what would make more sense.
29:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5000
Okay.
29:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5006
Give me the monetary value or some multiplier to whatever makes the most sense to just be like, okay, you get this much credits.
29:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5007
Which also for the record, I don't even think I've put a credit card into your system, probably because we're not using it fully, but I still feel like there's, yeah, I have $15.
30:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5031
I don't know how I have $15 in here when I've never added it, but do you give us credits?
30:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5065
Is that what it is?
30:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5085
We should top that up for you.
30:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5090
I'll top it up.
30:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5097
Yeah.
30:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5101
Is that equivalent to meeting?
30:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5102
She's a great negotiator.
30:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5107
This is a good bit.
30:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5111
Is this a bit?
30:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5116
I don't think this is a bit.
30:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5120
I think she's like, I will fight you, get me credit now.
30:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5127
Well, if you're down to $15, I feel like we should bump that up.
30:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5139
Yeah.
30:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5153
Cash strapped.
30:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5154
I recently started using blacksmith.sh.
30:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5156
It's a much faster GitHub action.
30:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5161
If you're familiar, but they have this cool thing, which is like, if you tweet about us or put it also on LinkedIn, we'll just give you like, 300 extra minutes of credits.
30:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5167
And you can do that every month.
30:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5200
So that's cool.
31:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5207
Yeah, that's so cool.
31:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5210
They have a really sick onboarding as well.
31:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5214
I've seen that.
31:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5222
It's like it was painless.
31:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5225
Yeah.
31:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5230
Check, check, check.
31:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5231
Done through that one.
31:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5234
Yeah.
31:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5238
Yeah.
31:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5239
Anyway, any other questions?
31:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5240
Because I've already taken up more time than probably.
31:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5244
No, this is.
31:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5253
Thank you for giving.
31:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5256
We've taken up your time.
31:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5260
This is amazingly helpful.
31:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5265
Yeah, well, no, this is great.
31:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5269
I'm really excited about the call recording stuff.
31:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5275
And then whenever, I mean, I'm happy to also be a guinea pig too on the outbound stuff, even if it's not even in the UI, if it's like pure API call or something, I'm totally down to test that.
31:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5283
And I don't necessarily think we would launch with that part anytime soon.
31:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5323
I just want to be able to show that we could potentially do it to figure out how we would do it.
31:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5336
Yeah,
31:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5358
go on.
31:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5359
Did you really can't hear?
31:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5361
We can't.
31:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5366
Is that funny?
31:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5368
I know that this isn't exactly part of it, but could we analyze a live call through them?
32:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5371
Like, if you guys hear that.
32:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5389
The phones of funeral homes, could we be like continuously analyzing what they're doing?
32:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5395
Because it'd be cool to pop up with them, like, this is this person's case, and we want to do that anyways.
32:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5409
So can we do that in real time?
32:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5431
We don't do that anytime soon.
32:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5439
I'm going to jump in here, sorry.
32:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5445
In real time, technically we could, technically we do that now because we're streaming the call content, right?
32:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5452
That would just be something on our endpoint.
32:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5470
Am I right in thinking that?
32:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5478
Yep.
32:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5484
You
32:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5485
can get the text back.
32:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5486
So then you could just, if you wanted to, yeah, you could basically just, you want to do an action based on what's happening in live time.
32:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5491
Yeah, I think so.
32:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5518
Yeah, you could do that totally.
32:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5522
Yeah, you both said totally.
32:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5528
Okay.
32:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5533
Now this is a bit.
32:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5534
Okay, anything else that I'm forgetting here?
33:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5539
Sorry, nothing on outside.
33:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5546
Okay, cool.
33:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5550
Well, yeah, I mean, let me know whenever those things are good to go.
33:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5552
And yeah, if you need anything else for me, just reach out or ping me in Slack.
33:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5566
Yeah.
33:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5583
Would it be okay to chat in about a month and we could share what we've picked up on the calls and like confirm if you think it sounds legit?
33:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5584
And then also we can give you updates on like the progress on this stuff.
33:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5614
Yeah.
33:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5629
You can if you want to do like one time meetings every time you're ready or if you even want to just do it recurring, that's totally fine.
33:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5630
Okay, great.
33:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5658
Yeah, I could see whatever's easier for you and we can always shift if.
33:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5660
I think we'll probably have a couple updates on these features before then.
33:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5674
Right.
33:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5687
Yeah.
33:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5688
Awesome.
33:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5689
I can send you a recurring link thing with Calendly.
33:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5690
Perfect.
33:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5700
Thanks so much.
33:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5701
All right, see you guys.
33:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5704
Get an umbrella.
33:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5709
I'll see you soon.
34:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5712
We'll try it.
34:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5716
Stay dry.
34:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5719
All right, bye.
34:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5721
See you.
34:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/10#word-5724

-----

Episode: Nathan French from Mia.inc #1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9

Okay.
0:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-0
So, Nathan, the first question that I wanted to ask you is when you're building with voice AI, so I don't mean to say that like an AI, when you're building in voice,
0:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1
if you could wave a magic wand at anything to make it better, easier, faster, less.
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-34
Yeah.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-50
What would you be waving the magic wand at?
0:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-51
Yeah, that's a good question.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-60
There's.
0:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-65
There's a lot of things
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-66
at the moment.
0:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-71
I would say evals is one of the more difficult things to kind of.
0:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-74
Pinned down and getting
0:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-88
reliable ways to assess how well your agent's doing in production is surprisingly difficult
0:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-92
because it's like the models are so non-deterministic you end up getting a lot of issues that like you wouldn't have expected if you just manually regression test something.
1:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-106
So I think
1:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-135
just having an eval system where you can test tens of thousands of calls across a broad set of test cases and have that actually mimic what you'd see in production.
1:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-138
And like if you make an improvement, have like a simulated test suite for that improvement that you just made to make sure that it actually improves whatever sort of like thing you're trying to measure.
1:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-169
But yeah, there's a lot of challenges within eval specifically just because a lot of the time there isn't like a set metric that you're trying to do.
1:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-205
There are some examples where like if you want the agent to
2:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-233
book a test drive or something, then it's very objective.
2:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-245
This tool call was called.
2:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-255
Did this action actually happen in the back end is a very objective thing.
2:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-260
But there's a lot of like not objective things that are really hard to actually like put a value on that makes sense.
2:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-274
Yeah, is there anything that you've tried like where you kind of got got to with that.
2:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-297
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's there's a lot of things
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-314
there's
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-323
I I have I use this thing called deep eval which is just like a pretty standard
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-324
Pytest-based LmEval framework, but it's not really meant for voice.
2:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-341
So we just use it on the transcripts themselves and only deal with like text-based evals.
2:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-351
And then we're using this thing called Hamming that's, I think they went through YC a couple years back.
2:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-367
But they,
3:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-386
sorry.
3:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-388
Well, sorry, I'm just looking them up.
3:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-389
Hamming, you said?
3:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-396
Yeah, yeah.
3:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-399
H-A-M-M-I-N-G-A-I.
3:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-401
And it's founded by a guy named Sue Minyu, but super smart team.
3:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-402
But they're,
3:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-415
like the problem they solve is this eval problem on voice agents, but it's just like a very difficult problem to solve.
3:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-417
So we're implementing them now, but we'll see how much of a lifesaver they are.
3:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-439
Hopefully they help a lot, but
3:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-454
yeah, there's so many cases to cover and it's hard to get like 100% test coverage in real life, like in production.
3:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-460
And so just kind of almost like asking the question again, so based on, evals and what you kind of have at the moment.
3:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-482
If you could wave a magic wand at what you have, what would you change sort of right now?
4:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-506
Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of things that we haven't been able to get a good
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-525
way of testing.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-543
So, for instance, like, pronunciation issues have been a huge thing recently with a lot of our customers because if you're an accurate dealership and you're just implementing our solution, then and like the our system is mispronouncing your dealership name, then it's like one of the biggest, it's like why would you buy the solution?
4:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-546
It's like embarrassing because it's a bad reflection on them.
4:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-602
So it's like how do you test for bad pronunciations in a way that you can guarantee that like the model is going to pronounce things right?
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-612
Because text-to-speech models like Cartesia are pretty unreliable and they have a lot of issues that
5:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-639
you just can't really like fix.
5:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-655
So yeah, I'd say like, There's just so many
5:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-661
tests that we don't have.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-670
So the magic wand would be like, if I could have a
5:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-675
metric that we can test against and try to optimize
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-687
across the board, that would be fantastic.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-697
Have a metric for how well the model is pronouncing
5:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-704
I don't know, like a set of keywords or something.
5:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-714
But yeah, there's a lot of things that are really hard to test for.
5:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-724
So does that answer the question?
5:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-738
Yeah, that's really, really valuable.
6:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-744
If we were able to deliver
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-749
this and you could kind of test pronunciation and really feel confident in that, that value that you were getting tens of thousands of
6:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-755
development match production and how would it change your life?
6:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-779
Yeah, I think most of it would,
6:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-789
it would make us a lot more certain of
6:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-796
the guarantees of the system.
6:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-805
Because right now we have to provide SLAs and we have to provide certain guarantees that for a lot of things,
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-810
they'll receive the service that they're asking for.
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-831
With these systems, we can build the most reliable thing, but the fact of the matter is we're relying on external providers in some ways.
6:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-839
We're always going to have to provide or we're always going to have to use external providers like Partisia for text-to-speech, Deepgram for speech-to-text.
7:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-864
Just having
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-888
more
7:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-890
confidence that the model is actually doing what you want it to do and our voice system is doing what we want it to do.
7:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-891
Because right now, we manually regression test a lot.
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-916
We have a couple engineers whose time is dedicated to calling the test numbers and just calling it probably hundreds of times.
7:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-925
So it would just save us like a lot of development time is the main thing.
7:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-947
Yeah, in addition to giving us like confidence and everything.
7:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-963
But yeah, it's a big problem.
7:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-973
Considerable time saving then if you could automate that.
7:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-979
Yeah, for sure.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-988
For sure.
7:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-991
Yeah, it would be
7:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-993
easily hundreds of hours a week.
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-997
Probably good for your developer retention, I guess.
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1003
Yeah, luckily we haven't had issues with that, but
8:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1011
yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1020
But for sure, I,
8:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1023
yeah, I'd be working on it, not having to test it.
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1027
I'll say that.
8:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1038
Is there anything about this, this is my son, Pine the Sky, is there anything about the world now that makes this more valuable than it was like, say a year ago?
8:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1041
Yeah, yeah.
8:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1073
I think like voice AI in general wasn't really feasible a year ago just because the models were so much more unreliable that people, and it was so new as well, people are kind of scared to implement something so different.
8:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1075
Yeah, there's a lot of social reasons why.
8:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1116
I think people have worries that their customers aren't going to receive talking to AI as well as a real human.
8:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1124
So there's always like, I don't know, like with things this disruptive, I think there's typically some like tentativeness in implementing it.
9:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1145
So I think like now we're finally seeing the models get good enough where people like talking to them and people can actually see them solving big problems that they have.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1167
So for dealerships, it's like inbound lead generation.
9:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1198
Is a huge thing.
9:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1206
And so normally, like with car dealerships, a lot of their, the people calling in, just the, the dealership team doesn't have enough capacity to actually field those calls.
9:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1210
So those people will just go to a different dealership and take their, their money elsewhere.
9:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1239
So I think there's Niche cases like that where there's just a massive benefit to having even a simple agent that can at least field those calls and schedule an appointment.
9:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1255
I just think that
10:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1286
the models are so much better now that it's possible to have voice AI that does something useful.
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1290
Whereas before with things like structured output, even structured output wasn't reliable at all.
10:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1308
So you couldn't really interface with LMS's functions.
10:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1322
You just kind of had to hope and sort of use them more like chatbots.
10:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1330
But.
10:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1345
Yeah, there's been a lot of, yeah.
10:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1346
Sorry, sorry, I interrupted you, Nathan.
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1353
Oh, no, no worries.
10:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1359
I might ask you, sorry, this will be very loopy.
10:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1363
I'm in a four loop basically.
10:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1373
But
10:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1379
you had evals as the number one thing that you would wave your magic wand at.
10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1380
Is there anything else that would be like, you know, come after that?
10:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1396
Yeah.
10:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1409
Just in terms of like the voice stack?
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1410
Well,
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1418
yes or yeah, well, anything that's causing you a lot of problems right now as an engineer?
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1419
Yeah.
11:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1436
Yeah.
11:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1437
There's a lot of like small, details, but I don't know, like, how specific you want this to be.
11:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1438
Yeah, I'd love to hear anything that's on your mind.
11:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1457
Yeah.
11:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1467
Eval is definitely the big one.
11:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1468
What else?
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1474
I mean, I think, like, latency is always a consideration.
11:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1476
So.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1486
How do we.
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1487
Everything kind of ties back to evals, though, because, like, you can optimize models like you can.
11:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1490
Take open source models, quantize them.
11:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1507
You can do so many things for latency, but it all ties back to evals because you can try out a million things.
11:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1513
And then if you know that the performance isn't degrading past a certain percent, then you can accept the latency gains where a lot of the time,
12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1536
I can complain about latency, but if we had super strong evals, then I could test out
12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1563
as many different methods as I want to reduce latency.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1580
And then I can be 100% sure that there isn't going to be some sort of numerical instability in the models or I can be 100% sure that there isn't some sort of downstream effect that's being caused by the faster systems.
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1590
But,
12:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1632
Yeah, I mean,
12:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1633
I think there's a lot of challenges specifically in the pipeline I'm working with because it was built very
12:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1636
non modularly.
12:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1655
So like we have one LM instance that's like hard coded as like this provider and that provider has downtime and then we're just kind of fucked.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1657
So we have, like, a load balancer across a bunch of different regions of the same model, but it's, like, a single model.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1684
So it's.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1707
It's.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1709
It's just, like, really ugly.
13:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1710
And making that modular is kind of, like, a huge pain because there's so many touch points.
13:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1715
But I wouldn't say that's, like, a problem that I just don't know how to fix or something.
13:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1732
It's kind of like a.
13:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1750
Like an annoyance is having everything like hard, because everything moves so fast.
13:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1755
There's probably going to be a new state of the art LLM in like two weeks, three weeks.
13:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1768
So just having the ability to swap in LLMs for each other and just instantiate a different LLM and then going back to the evals, run an eval to make sure that your tasks still work properly with a different LLM is super valuable.
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1786
But yeah, does that make sense?
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1830
It's like a second problem.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1836
Yeah.
14:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1841
Where are you currently learning about building with voice and what resources are you using?
14:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1842
I kind of just had to fuck around and find out for a lot of it.
14:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1857
I'd say the open source community I'm most active in is Pipecat.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1873
And I think they have a really strong group of developers that, and I think they're, they have a lot better documentation now, so you may not have to around as much to find out the same amount.
14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1885
But,
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1923
yeah, I, I think the only way to really do this type of thing is by actually hosting a model in the clouds or actually hosting a pipeline in the cloud somewhere and just like at least internally testing it and seeing what happens.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1924
Because there's there's no way, I wouldn't say there's like a great way out there to just like learn about it because it's so new.
15:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1968
Like I don't think very much,
15:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1993
I would say almost nothing I learned was like from definitely not one consolidated resource, but it's kind of like you see some like Twitter post about like some weird thing and you're just like, oh, that seems like maybe it would be useful here.
15:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-1999
And then you try it out and it sucks or you try it out and it's awesome.
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2044
But I definitely wouldn't say there's like a consolidated resource, but Typecat's like the one that I would say would be the closest to a consolidated resource.
15:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2061
Yeah.
15:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2088
Okay, that's really, really helpful.
15:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2089
Those are most of the questions that I had, and this is like very, very valuable.
15:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2094
One very rogue question, we're putting together some swag for the technical advisory board.
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2110
Nice.
16:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2124
What's the best sort of swag?
16:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2125
Dude, I would say hoodies.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2131
I'm a big hoodie guy.
16:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2136
I like hoodies,
16:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2141
shirts.
16:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2144
Kind of.
16:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2145
Yeah, kind of anything.
16:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2147
I mean, I I would say my go-to hoodies, but I'd say anything.
16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2151
Okay.
16:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2164
Would you want it to say, like,
16:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2165
what kind of, like, would you want it to say something, like, about, like, voice or, like, technical Advisory board or just, like, our logo?
16:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2172
Like, what sort of.
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2197
Thing.
16:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2201
Yeah.
16:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2202
What would you actually wear?
16:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2203
I think.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2208
Yeah.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2210
Oh, I see.
16:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2211
I I have no idea.
16:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2214
I think.
16:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2219
Yeah, I have no idea what it would even look like, but if you.
16:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2221
You can send me, like, designs.
16:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2235
If.
16:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2241
If you have someone I can, like, I think right now I just have, like, no idea.
16:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2242
Yeah.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2259
That's what it would look like.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2260
It's a good.
16:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2266
Yeah, but you got a few ideas in mind.
17:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2269
That's why Jack's asking.
17:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2278
Yeah.
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2282
Okay, cool.
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2283
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2285
If you have some ideas, like.
17:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2290
That I would definitely provide my opinion if you send me some.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2296
Okay, sweet.
17:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2308
I have a quick question.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2310
Yeah.
17:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2315
Like, you know, walking around and finding out has been your adventure and how to actually figure out how to build this stuff.
17:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2316
Yeah.
17:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2339
I think, like, you know, they do a really good job with a lot of the docs and stuff.
17:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2340
I'm wondering, because we're obviously thinking like, as you said, this is super early and like, I think there's a opportunity for us to do some education and we're just thinking about like the medium that makes sense for people.
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2359
Are you like, yeah, stuff, newsletters, podcasts, video, like combination of those things?
17:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2399
I mean, if we were gonna create some content, like, it kind of, this is the same question as the hoodie question.
17:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2412
It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2434
Actually, there'd be a chance you'd be like, you know what?
17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2439
Actually, that is a good that's how I would like to learn, you know?
18:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2450
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2464
I definitely know how to answer this question better than the hoodie question, but I would say, I would say YouTube would definitely be a good resource.
18:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2467
There's a lot of communities though.
18:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2494
I would say like open source communities are kind of like the gold
18:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2500
thing to
18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2513
interface with other people building this space and have like educational resources.
18:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2515
Because when people are first trying to build
18:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2527
products, most people aren't just going to be like, oh, fuck it, I'll spend like 5K a month on some enterprise voice orchestration platform.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2535
Most of them are going to be like
18:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2559
how to build voice AI or something.
18:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2567
And it'll come up with the open source repositories online like Pipecat or LiveKit.
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2574
And then they join those discords, they join the, the Twitters, maybe if they have a slack, and they'll just kind of collaborate on resources there and, and learn there.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2588
So I'd say, like, it depends on what exactly you're trying to do.
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2618
Like, if it's to extend your company's reach and get, like, feedback on a product, I would definitely say some sort of
19:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2631
open source community?
19:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2653
Yeah, I think it's like there's two, this, it's honestly, it's kind of like three pieces to this.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2656
One is like, you know, for our own learning, what do we wish existed when we were kind of getting into this, right?
19:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2674
Like creating that.
19:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2697
Second is there's obviously like an audience and community building component for us, but the third is that that all ultimately leads to at some point, hopefully some of these people might want to try our product, but I think Thinking way before that, because I know with developers in particular,
19:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2700
it's not like a traditional funnel.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2751
Obviously, people just pull out, they might never come back.
19:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2757
You might actually just provide a learning resource that someone who on the weekend is into voice actually finds value in, but they may never need to build voice.
20:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2767
They have a friend later who asks them about it or something.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2796
And so I think, yeah, yeah.
20:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2808
We really would, if we're going to, and we are going to be creating more content, but it's like, you know, it really has to be valuable.
20:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2814
And so how can we actually really teach people about this, you know, or some aspects of this is kind of top of mind.
20:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2841
So that's really, really helpful context just on your preferences there.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2865
And I think, yeah,
20:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2876
yeah, definitely with the voice stuff, I think the most active communities are on Twitter and Discord in like voice AI groups.
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2880
But in terms of like general public, it's always different.
20:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2902
So like if you're trying to market towards more general public, there's actually a lot of people on TikTok that like this type of content and kind of like absorb AI content on TikTok.
20:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2912
But I don't know, it's definitely not my forte, like marketing.
21:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2946
So.
21:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2957
That'S why you're like obviously getting value from content that's out there.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2958
So it's a really good perspective.
21:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2970
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2976
I would say
21:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2981
most of the content I do kind of
21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2984
stay away.
21:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2992
I don't consciously stay away from it, but, like, I feel like a lot of it isn't very well informed because it's such a new space.
21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-2994
And so people
21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3020
are kind of, like, experimenting with it, like, thinking this thing is cool, but don't really know too much about what they're talking about, which is, of course, like, fine.
21:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3023
Like, that's.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3053
That's, like, the way it is.
22:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3055
But it's been down the mines for a while and so.
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3061
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3072
So most of the stuff I look at now is like general like math and machine learning type stuff on Twitter.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3075
Or like reading research papers on like specific architectures or stuff like that.
22:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3096
But
22:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3109
most of it's from Twitter.
22:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3110
What's your like angle?
22:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3115
Is it curiosity or like when you read like a machine learning paper?
22:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3119
Yeah curiosity or you're thinking that it.
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3132
Gives you yeah, for sure.
22:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3139
Yeah, a lot of it's curiosity which is like tied into
22:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3144
Like I was a math CS and I get technically finance undergrad, but math was like the thing I like the most so I think there's definitely like an aspect of mathematical beauty that I like seeing a lot on my feed and it just like piques my interest.
22:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3155
So
23:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3204
yeah, I'd say like curiosity that would probably be like the main thing, like wondering how people built some sort of like technical architecture, how is one type of new machine learning model works.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3205
But yeah, which I wouldn't say is like mainstream content for sure.
23:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3239
So that's why I think my opinion's a little bit skewed and may not be as helpful.
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3251
But yeah.
23:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3268
Any people stand out that you like to watch?
23:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3270
On the research side?
23:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3279
Yeah.
23:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3283
Yeah.
23:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3284
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3285
On Twitter, there's a couple.
23:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3288
The first one that comes to mind, his name is Francois Chollet.
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3293
Yeah,
23:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3305
yeah.
23:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3306
He's like the serious reason.
23:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3307
He's like a real researcher, right?
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3312
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3318
He's a researcher.
24:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3322
He founded Arc AGI, the benchmark, and he was also the founder of the machine learning package, Caris.
24:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3325
How was it?
24:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3343
Caris.
24:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3346
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3347
He works at DeepMind now, but he always has really good content.
24:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3351
But I think that sort of people, that sort of person is the most
24:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3363
captivating for my attention.
24:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3377
Okay, you're going straight.
24:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3381
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3385
Yeah, I think we're coming towards the end.
24:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3389
So.
24:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3397
Is it okay if I send you another, I've got another Calendly that's just got a kind of it can like, if there's a time that would work for like sort of once a month for like sessions.
24:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3398
Yeah, for sure.
24:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3436
Okay, amazing.
24:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3439
And we're gonna reach out as well with like
24:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3441
what we learn as we learn it and also probably at some point to like get your maybe, I don't know if we're gonna get hoodies.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3450
Sounds like you've got a strong vote in here.
25:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3476
I think we should get hoodies.
25:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3485
We should get hoodies.
25:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3491
And stuff as well.
25:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3495
Awesome.
25:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3499
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3500
I'll be looking forward to it.
25:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3503
Okay.
25:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3509
Nathan, thank you so much.
25:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3510
That was incredible.
25:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3515
Incredibly, incredibly useful.
25:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3518
Yeah.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3521
Yeah.
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3522
We'll try and provide some value to you as well.
25:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3523
So thank you so much.
25:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3533
Yeah, of course.
25:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3538
Thank you all.
25:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3541
Have a good one.
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3544
Yeah.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3548
Great to meet you, Nathan.
25:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3549
Yeah, yeah.
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3554
Good to meet you too.
25:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3556
All right.
25:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3561
Bye.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/9#word-3563

-----

Episode: Ben Schoeggl from achilleshr #1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8

Thank you.
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-0
Okay, so the first question that we have is,
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2
so the first question is, when you're building with voice stuff, if you could wave a magic wand at anything and make it better, make it less difficult or change anything about it, where would you kind of be aiming the magic wand?
0:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-11
I would say just overall conversation.
0:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-54
What's the right word?
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-60
Like, fluidness and smoothness.
0:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-64
Like, when you're having a conversation with a human being, it's very obvious.
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-68
You know, our brains just kind of, like, automatically figure out when we should talk, when we should not talk.
0:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-81
The current, like, voice pipeline system is not great at that.
0:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-101
So we definitely have some like remaining issues with like right now, for example, we have a long, I think we have a second and a half of on purpose silence between you can't person stopping talking model starting talking so we don't get a bunch of like problematic interruptions there.
0:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-112
Um, which just makes the conversation feel a little bit sluggish.
1:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-163
That's a big one.
1:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-174
Um.
1:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-178
Honestly, that's probably like, that's our biggest
1:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-179
source of issues for sure.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-186
Like, yeah, I've spent a lot of time just kind of like
1:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-191
messing with settings and trying to figure out stuff to do to just make that feel better.
1:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-203
If I could just wave a wand.
1:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-220
Basically, if you could wave a wand and just kind of like give it system prompt and tool calls and like what tools to call and stuff like that and the conversation just like went perfectly every time that would be kind of my magic wand thing yeah, and.
1:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-227
You mentioned that you played around with some stuff to try and fix it.
2:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-276
Can we hear a little bit more about like what we tried?
2:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-290
I messed with solero like all the solero bad settings a lot just like tuning them up and down I messed with we use live kit and live kit has a There's like a contextual end of utterance thing.
2:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-302
I'm not even entirely sure how it interacts with the Solara of that, but
2:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-341
I messed around with that.
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-355
I've messed around with using different speech to text providers and tuning the speech to text providers.
2:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-360
I've messed around with.
2:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-377
You know, timing on stuff in terms of how much time do we introduce between,
2:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-381
you know, person stopping talking, model starting talking.
2:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-396
I've messed around with like if the model doesn't detect or if the called Solero or whatever doesn't detect speech, how long do you wait before you say something like, hey, sorry, I can't hear you.
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-404
Yeah, just all that stuff.
3:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-440
Did anything make much of a difference?
3:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-445
Yeah.
3:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-452
Adding, so we went, initially I had like a really short delay between person stopping talking and model starting because I wanted the conversation to feel snappier, but that caused a bunch of bad interruption problems.
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-453
So I actually went on the other side of that and I went like above what the recommended default is.
3:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-489
That is a really reduced to be like error states in terms of the model interrupting people when it shouldn't, but.
3:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-509
It'S.
3:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-530
Just made the conversation feel more sluggish, but it's definitely better.
3:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-531
The other big one is now, I think it's after like three seconds, so not very much time if the model doesn't hear anything.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-542
It will say, hey, sorry, I can't hear you.
4:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-566
Can you speak up?
4:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-575
Which
4:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-579
seems to help.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-580
Yeah, that just kind of like prevents a lot of error states effectively.
4:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-583
And also, we were having issues with a lot of our candidates are in like high background noise environments, be it like they might be on a manufacturing floor somewhere or something.
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-596
And so that's kind of a, it'll prompt them to put the phone in a lower noise environment without being like, hey, I'm a stupid AI, I can't hear you.
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-628
Great.
4:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-658
Can you move your phone to somewhere?
4:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-659
Like, if you just say, I can't hear you, like, sorry, I can't hear you.
4:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-666
It's just a nicer way to kind of prompt them to make, or prompt the candidate to make the noise environment a little better.
5:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-681
Yeah, yeah.
5:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-705
That's really helpful.
5:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-707
Yeah, it seems like you tried a lot of stuff and.
5:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-710
Tried a lot.
5:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-721
It's a
5:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-724
good time.
5:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-726
Voice is a good time.
5:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-728
Yeah, it's gonna get there.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-733
And so if we were to deliver
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-738
sort of a experience that people like it didn't have those like barging in, it didn't have like that, like it felt smooth.
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-745
How would it change your life?
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-768
Well, it would have saved me like three to four weeks of pain last month.
5:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-774
But in general, we have it in at least a decent state now where our clients aren't mad.
6:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-789
It's kind of a weird conundrum because in sales calls now, our calls are pretty damn good.
6:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-807
It's not quite as good in the real world with higher noise environments and stuff like that.
6:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-824
We did just get a
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-841
client complaint today about
6:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-846
basically like the pickup process being a little janky.
6:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-850
So just, I don't know.
6:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-859
Yeah, if there was a product, I would definitely pay for a product where all that is just kind of like handled and works well.
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-864
However, I'm highly skeptical of like a one stop shop.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-889
Solution because
6:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-899
our call environment, maybe this is not good thinking on my part, but our call environment is very different from a call center call environment, which is very different from,
6:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-901
I don't know, maybe it's not that different actually, I don't know.
7:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-931
Yeah,
7:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-943
yeah, I mean, I would definitely,
7:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-944
you know,
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-950
I have a ticket on my to-dos at some point to just, I'm pretty confident that LiveKit is probably the best solution, but I just want, I never actually prototyped like VAPI or LayerCode obviously, or
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-952
the other big one, PipeCat.
7:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-988
So I kind of have it on my to-do list to just do a prototype call with all those and make sure that life gets the best.
7:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-993
But yeah, if there was a solution where I could just like wave wand and get rid of all the conversation flow problems, I would be happy.
7:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1020
Yeah, actually, could I just- yeah, I.
7:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1047
Mean, I know that's kind of what you guys are like, starting to do somewhat because you guys basically just exposed the all live node, right?
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1054
But I
8:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1080
would be concerned, like, The other problem with a one stop shop solution where it's just like you guys, someone else handles the entire conversation flows.
8:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1082
Like if there is a bug that I'm completely dependent on your release cycle to fix the bug.
8:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1108
Like if a client of mine, if a big client finds a bug and gets really some issue in the conversation flow, gets really mad about it, I am 100% dependent on your guys release cycle to keep that client, which I also don't really like.
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1126
Yeah,
8:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1172
but I don't know, it just depends.
8:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1173
Yeah, that.
8:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1180
Yeah.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1182
Sorry, I'm kind of rambling now.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1183
All right, this is super, super helpful.
8:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1189
How would you describe, like, why you decided to go with Livekit, by the way?
8:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1196
Well, so we started off with like Bland, which is basically like drag and drop UI thing for it, but it basically just sounded like a phone tree.
9:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1211
And then
9:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1239
as in the conversation flow sounded like a phone tree.
9:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1241
And then I was just looking around at different providers.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1251
Pipecat just seemed like it was like.
9:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1261
Not.
9:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1268
Super mature compared to LiveKit.
9:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1269
And I mean, LiveKit's like a fairly big company.
9:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1274
So, I mean, there's always some comfort in that.
9:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1283
I had a colleague recommend LiveKit, and then I looked around at Vappy, and I forget there was some issue with Vappy.
9:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1292
But just generally, LiveKit seemed like the best solution.
9:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1314
And so, I built the call in LiveKit and it worked pretty well.
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1323
Then we actually, well, I initially built it with their Java Agent JavaScript framework and then we discovered that that one
10:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1336
sucks compared to the Python one.
10:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1357
So then I actually rebuilt it in Python.
10:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1363
LiveKit, Python.
10:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1371
LiveKit Python library, yeah.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1373
There were just a bunch of bugs in the JavaScript one that don't exist in the Python one.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1377
So.
10:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1395
Yeah, I guess that's been our development journey.
10:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1396
But I still, yeah, now I'm at a point where that was sort of like getting the product off the ground, didn't do quite as much research as I should have.
10:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1404
I think LiveKit's I guess his LiveKit's
10:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1435
probably the best solution.
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1442
But yeah, that's what I said.
10:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1446
I'm gonna take some time to just prototype Vappy and
10:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1452
I can't.
11:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1462
Yeah, I think they're doing a good job, LiveKit.
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1464
And yeah, as I said, this is not about trying to convince you or anything.
11:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1473
So we're
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1488
just trying to uncover how we could be useful.
11:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1490
Yeah, no, I'll definitely, I'm definitely interested in what you guys are doing.
11:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1499
I mean, it sounds like what you guys are doing is effect trying to do is effectively like what I'm asking for as a customer, which is handle everything conversation related.
11:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1512
I'm just, yeah, like I said, a little bit skeptical of,
11:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1543
like the one stop shop and also like, you guys aren't even launched yet, so it's like, I will definitely prototype it when you have maturity.
11:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1554
But
11:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1580
this is your whole business.
11:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1581
So you've
11:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1586
got to be risk averse on making sure that anyone you go with is reliable and has a good record and stuff.
11:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1588
So we understand that.
12:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1610
Yeah, on the just a question I had actually on the agents.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1614
Because one, my background, I came from using a lot more, like, I've been dabbling a lot more with, like, the
12:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1626
general, like, AI agent Frameworks.
12:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1647
So more like they're kind of, I, I was using Maestro, just like JavaScript one, but I think there's, like, pydantic and
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1652
the, the big one, I forgot the Lang chain and stuff like that.
12:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1674
Lang chain.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1687
Yeah.
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1689
Did you ever look at using any of those more general ones rather than the
12:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1690
LiveKit library for the LLM stuff?
12:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1705
I mean, you can use, I believe you can use LangChain stuff on top of LiveKit.
12:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1711
Really, we're using LiveKit to help manage telephony and all the conversation stuff.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1727
I mean, we.
13:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1740
Control all our own
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1743
tool calls and system prompts and stuff with LiveKit.
13:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1747
I haven't really looked, so initially I thought we were going to have to do some complex agent setup or something, but we tried a couple of things and what worked the best was just stuff everything into the system prompt.
13:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1756
So far.
13:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1797
And so that's kind of what we've ran with.
13:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1799
Eventually we'll definitely get more
13:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1808
advanced on that, but what we have works pretty well for now.
13:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1813
Okay.
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1825
Are you using any frameworks besides the LiveKit one?
13:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1826
On the call side,
13:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1835
Not right now.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1839
Not at the moment, yeah.
14:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1842
We're going to use, I'm planning on implementing Coval, which is like, I don't know, have you heard of them?
14:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1847
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1867
That's for evals, right?
14:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1870
Yeah, and they interact with some open source thing called LangFuse or something.
14:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1874
So basically you just have to instrument your call with LangFUSE and then you get a bunch of stuff out of the box.
14:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1887
So planning on using that in the near term.
14:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1910
But yeah.
14:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1919
Yeah.
14:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1921
Okay.
14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1922
Super, super helpful.
14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1923
Okay.
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1926
This one.
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1927
Okay.
14:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1929
Is there anything different about the world now than say like a year ago or longer than that that makes waving a magic wand and having smooth voice more valuable now than it would have been a year or two ago?
14:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1930
Well, for me personally, we understand how to sell this product better.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1971
So I feel like the opportunity for this company is bigger than I thought it was a year ago.
15:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-1983
And so just, I mean, making things better, it's like, you know,
15:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2002
that's like, you know, multiplying whatever.
15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2014
It's like a bigger multiplier on one side is solving all the problems.
15:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2020
I don't think they're like, as far as I can tell, there aren't, like,
15:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2033
From a year ago, I don't think that there are
15:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2047
tectonic changes in any of the models
15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2057
such that like voice content is significantly better.
15:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2064
Yeah, I don't think there's any like new breakthrough where it's like,
16:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2072
oh, you know, this conversation will go so much better with GPT-5 or something like that.
16:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2084
Yeah, not that I can think of.
16:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2100
I don't know.
16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2107
What about same question on your side?
16:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2110
What do you think?
16:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2117
Well, I feel like just, I mean, the obvious one is just the models of like, just so much more.
16:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2121
The actual LLM models, I feel like maybe the voice one's not that much different, but the just LLM is more powerful.
16:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2141
And so I feel like they can handle a lot more stuff and it's easier to write things that can kind of do quite a lot.
16:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2163
I don't know.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2189
I had a mad moment when I first- But I think, yeah, I mean.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2192
I think ChatGPT is more like all the memory stuff they've done is very interesting, but that doesn't apply to calls.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2206
I don't know.
17:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2227
Yeah, I mean, have there been, because like for a given call, you have, there's no memory, you have like the same, I mean, people have kind of discovered things that you can do with the prompts to make things a little bit better, but I don't feel like in the last year, in terms of like there has been, I haven't seen like a one new model that like really drastically changes things.
17:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2230
Which one are you using actually?
17:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2304
GPT-4O.
17:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2310
GPT-4O.
17:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2311
Okay, yeah, yeah, I think that's a good one.
17:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2312
Yeah, we've been using Gemini Flash 2.5.
17:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2321
Yeah, I've looked at, I looked, yeah, I need to look at Gemini Flash actually, because I've heard it's very good.
17:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2328
Yeah, but I don't know if it's like, I don't know, I guess for me, like, I was just surprised, like, because I remember I kind of took like a year or so break of like building with that and stuff and like I felt like it just became a lot easier where you could kind of just say what you want to happen and like give the tools and then it would actually like with the frameworks like master of the one I was using it would just like loop through and like if you gave it the tools and said what you wanted to do it would actually just like work really well.
17:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2349
I don't know but I don't know if that was these were mostly like my
18:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2464
hobby cases.
18:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2479
So I know that.
18:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2481
Yeah, you want it to be a little bit more, like,
18:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2485
deterministic.
18:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2496
Yeah.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2497
Yeah.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2498
So last couple of questions.
18:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2499
Ben, how do you learn new things about voice AI stuff?
18:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2504
Twitter.
18:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2515
Is there anyone?
18:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2516
Pretty good.
18:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2519
The pipe cat guy.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2521
Quinn was pretty good.
18:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2525
Yeah.
19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2529
I signed up for, like, that.
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2530
He did, like, a course a while ago, which I sent up for, and I only went to a couple of the things because I was so busy, but.
19:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2536
Yeah,
19:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2565
I don't have a great, I mean, honestly, to be honest, like, I'm just like so insanely busy with getting stuff done for the company that I don't have at the current moment have a ton of time to do like research for
19:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2566
new stuff.
19:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2609
Sometimes I'll like pop my head above water and be able to have some time to read or something, but it doesn't happen very often.
19:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2611
I know that I need to, for example, I think we can make an improvement by using Google speech to text for articles, which I'm going to investigate today.
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2636
But it's something where I'll just see.
20:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2665
That.
20:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2672
I saw a random post by some guy at Mercore.
20:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2673
Where they basically did a giant AB test of a bunch of-- they tested,
20:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2683
I think they tested
20:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2697
a ton of speech attacks.
20:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2701
They kept the LLM the same, but it was speech attacks and text-to-speech combinations.
20:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2706
They AB tested a bunch of those combinations.
20:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2720
And Google speech attacks and Cartesia text-to-speech seemed to be the best.
20:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2728
So we're already on Cartesia.
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2740
For textual speech, but we use deep ground for speech tech.
20:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2745
So I was going to look at that, see if.
20:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2756
See if there's any noticeable difference for.
20:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2766
Us.
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2773
But, yeah, it's just stuff like that, mostly.
20:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2774
Yeah.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2782
Okay.
20:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2783
What about you guys?
20:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2784
Yeah, I mean, talking to people has been how we've just learned so much, to be honest.
20:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2788
Like, just asking people that are, like, banging their heads against it.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2805
Has been.
21:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2817
Yeah, because it's always, I don't know,
21:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2819
I think in production it's just different.
21:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2826
For sure.
21:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2833
Yeah, one last thing, Ben, hopefully a fun one, is that we're trying to put together some special swag for the tab.
21:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2835
Yeah, one of the ideas
21:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2857
that I just had over the weekend, because I was trying to learn how they do the text to speech stuff and how they actually train it.
21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2862
I don't know if you've looked into it, but like,
21:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2889
it seems like they use like Mel audiograms.
21:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2899
Anyway, one of the ideas that we had was to basically get your company name as like an audiogram.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2907
That like in the same style they use in like if you like so basically like more or less like a screenshot from like a Jupiter Notebook audiogram of your company and then have that on hoodie or something.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2926
I don't know if you thought it was like yeah, very cool.
22:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2965
Do you need it like recorded or something or?
22:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2977
Actually gonna figure that out if we get we could do it where we get your voice actually would that be would that be cooler if it was your voice?
22:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-2986
It could be anybody's voice.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3016
Okay.
22:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3021
And I guess it's cooler if it's your company than Leia code, right?
22:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3022
Yeah, probably.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3035
Yeah.
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3037
Okay.
22:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3038
Are you guys gonna put it on sweatshirts or hats or...
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3039
What would you prefer?
22:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3050
Probably a hat.
22:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3054
I don't know.
22:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3057
I don't wear like a ton of sweatshirts, so.
22:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3060
Okay.
22:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3069
Probably a hat, but yeah.
22:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3070
I've got to say you're so far in the minority on hats.
22:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3075
Oh, really?
23:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3087
Everybody says sweatshirts.
23:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3089
Everyone says sweatshirts so far, so.
23:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3092
But you know, there might be a late.
23:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3098
I'll take a sweatshirt.
23:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3106
You might be start the start of a late sweat Serge on hats.
23:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3110
So if you're okay.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3123
Yeah, Ben, that was like extremely, extremely helpful.
23:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3127
Thank you so much for your time.
23:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3135
I know you're very busy.
23:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3142
Of course.
23:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3147
So we'll, I'll send you an email just to like book some follow on ones and we'll get in touch about like swag and stuff like that, like sizes and if we want, if we need to get your audio voice.
23:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3149
Okay.
23:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3190
Yeah.
23:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3191
But yeah, great to meet you and, hopefully chat in about a month.
23:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3192
Cool.
23:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3205
Sounds good.
23:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3206
Can you also.
23:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3208
Will I get the recording for this as well?
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3211
Just so I can.
23:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3220
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3224
I can send you the recording.
23:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3227
Yeah, that'd be great.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3233
Like the notes as well.
23:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3237
I'm using, like, granola.
23:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3242
Cool.
23:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3246
Cool.
23:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3247
Thank you so much.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3248
Thanks, Ben.
24:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3252
See you later.
24:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3254
Have a good one.
24:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3257
Bye.
24:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/8#word-3261

-----

Episode: Anthony Rego from Aide #1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7

Yeah, I do have a little bit of background, but just before I ask you some of the questions that we've got, I just wanted to get a little bit more just on what you're working on and stuff, just so that I can frame questions.
0:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-0
Sure.
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-46
So the company we started about two and a half years ago, we were actually just doing normal, like,
0:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-47
chat-based assistance and things like that.
0:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-66
We've pivoted probably a million times at this point and eventually landed on voice agents.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-72
And we started as a very generic platform and we've been going into more niches.
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-87
We've been actually been getting into construction.
0:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-102
So on the job reports that usually have been made by someone going to their computer, opening it up, and filling out a form.
0:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-109
Now they can just call somebody, call an AI, and then have it done right on the phone.
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-133
And we do things like when you submit the report, it'll send you a text message with the link so you can open it up and confirm all the details and then send it off, stuff like that.
1:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-151
And then when we've also expanded now, not just voice, but WhatsApp and text message, and it's all one agent.
1:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-189
So you can change mediums and all the context stays the same.
1:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-209
Or you can even tell like a text, you can text the AI and be like, Hey, give me a call in like a half hour or something.
1:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-221
And then it'll call you then or call you at the moment.
1:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-249
That's really cool.
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-261
So right now we're still kind of experimenting on which niche to really get into.
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-264
Like we have like pilot programs with this construction business.
1:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-279
We have, we tried like plumbers trades and things like that, but there just really wasn't,
1:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-289
not really enough pull from them.
2:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-305
Like, and also like, I feel like plumbers are just very price conscious.
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-311
And as with all AI at this point, everything's a race to the bottom.
2:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-324
So we just kind of thought, oh, maybe we should just go for bigger contracts.
2:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-338
Interesting.
2:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-353
That's very interesting.
2:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-354
And I'm really excited about getting into the voice space because I just love it.
2:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-357
I kind of wanted to get into it from the beginning.
2:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-372
I have very deep interest in making my own voice assistance at home because I want it all to be local.
2:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-383
Like, have it on my.
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-404
My 4090 back there.
2:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-409
Dude.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-413
Oh, yeah, yeah.
2:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-414
Like, and I.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-417
I want to, like.
2:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-420
I wanted to make sure the Go service that we were building for our voice service was able to run on with any transcription, any kind of text speech, any kind of LLM so I can just use open source stuff locally and then have it be completely self-contained here.
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-424
And you really can.
3:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-474
Parakeet from NVIDIA is a really good speech text.
3:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-478
Well, it's pretty decent anyway, at least in terms of speed.
3:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-487
It's incredible.
3:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-498
And you have to definitely make some tweaks to it.
3:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-500
And also their newest version is multilingual with 25 European languages, which is really cool.
3:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-510
But for production, we use something we have it switched between Deepgram, 11 Labs is a speech to text.
3:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-525
And we tried a few others.
3:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-544
A Resemble had one assembly.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-550
We used to try using theirs for a bit, but we found like latency was, it changes day to day, it seems, but
3:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-555
in terms of quality, I liked Deepfram the most.
3:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-578
But the latency was not great.
4:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-587
And I don't have access to like Crisp, which is like the,
4:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-593
you know, there's people that like, there was one company I remember they were, they had like some sort of special deal where they had, they could have it on like their own infrastructure, Crisp.
4:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-605
But
4:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-640
I'm not sure if that was like a special deal they had to make, but I couldn't figure out how to, you know, get to do that without having to like talk to the company itself.
4:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-641
But about, you know, to the point though, like I think the most important part of accuracy and speed is getting transcription down.
4:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-677
That's so important.
4:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-700
Honestly, the only important part of voice services, I feel, is
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-703
balancing accuracy and speed is the biggest driver here.
4:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-714
In my opinion, anyway.
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-723
Text-to-speech is not such a big deal.
4:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-727
Texas speech is not a huge deal.
5:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-734
I mean, it matters if you want the quality to be really, if it wants to sound natural.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-741
But in terms of speed, I'm not worried about that.
5:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-759
Because especially the system that we have set up, I'm constantly generating responses as the transcription is coming in.
5:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-769
So it's like giving response candidates.
5:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-788
And then once we've confirmed that the user has stopped speaking, that's when we're like, okay, we have all these response candidates probably only take the last couple of ones, do a little comparison, then
5:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-794
you can kick it off to the text of speech.
5:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-829
But to speed that up even further is every response candidate, you can also just start spinning up all the buffering, all the text of speeches so that once you've figured out the right response candidate, you can start streaming it back almost immediately.
5:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-839
So the response time on on a text speech is not hugely important, not as important as
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-883
the transcription.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-900
It's because you don't want people waiting for a response.
6:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-902
Totally.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-912
There are a few things, I found that people are more okay with waiting if you have some sort of sound playing while it's thinking, like a little boop-boop-boop-boop-boop or something like that.
6:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-913
People tend to be more willing to wait around for that.
6:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-946
But if you don't, if it's silence for more than a second and a half, people just bail or
6:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-957
they start interrupting.
6:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-976
Like, hello, are you still there?
6:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-979
It's just a bad experience in general.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-985
I'm not sure if you've seen this.
6:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-992
Yourselves, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-999
Some of this is like, well, anyway, I'm not gonna to...
6:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1004
Go into what we're thinking at the moment, but just for a sec, just to hold off so we can get your pure thoughts.
6:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1015
But actually, did I explain to you the technical advisory board?
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1039
I don't think-- oh, actually, I don't.
7:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1050
Think I-- sorry, I think I went right into it.
7:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1057
I was too excited.
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1067
Okay, cool.
7:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1071
Yeah, yeah.
7:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1073
So basically, we're just looking to get like a small group of people who we chat with once a month for half an hour for six months.
7:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1075
And really it's just a chance.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1102
Hopefully it feels a little bit like therapy.
7:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1108
Just like unload everything on voice that you're feeling and lots of open-ended questions and stuff.
7:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1116
So we can talk about anything and then it will shape our roadmap of what we build and we'll share everything back with you and we're going to create some cool swag.
7:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1132
And also if you would like to, we can try and introduce you to other people.
7:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1164
In technical advisory board if you want to compare notes with other people that are building and stuff as well.
7:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1180
Yeah, that's awesome.
7:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1200
Amazing.
7:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1203
Clearly, I am kind of like the most technical person in my company and I feel like I just want to talk about this stuff with somebody that can relate as much as I've been dying to.
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1204
And I can't talk to my wife about it because she's sick of hearing about it.
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1241
Yeah, I understand.
8:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1257
And actually, I have more time.
8:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1260
I really want to dive into the whole, like, how you're running it locally and stuff.
8:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1266
I actually have been thinking a lot about that myself just as a personal curiosity as well.
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1282
I might try it.
8:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1299
So I'm just going to ask you a few questions.
8:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1303
Sure.
8:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1313
So the first question is, We're building with voice AI, in general, everything that you're doing around that.
8:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1314
If you could wave a magic wand or anything
8:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1332
to make it better, easier, whatever, you just wave the magic wand.
8:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1341
Where would you wave it at?
9:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1353
I mean, transcription.
9:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1359
If you could get that perfect and fast.
9:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1362
The rest would be easy.
9:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1370
Like this.
9:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1375
Yeah.
9:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1377
Be simple.
9:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1378
So that's just a.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1380
Yeah, straight up, like.
9:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1384
Yeah.
9:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1388
And how would it change your life if you had that perfect and fast transgression?
9:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1389
I mean,
9:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1404
you could just do so much more in that time that you have, like.
9:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1406
And you do.
9:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1420
You wouldn't have to.
9:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1423
I wouldn't have to worry about, like.
9:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1427
I have this whole separate thread that just does a healing of the transcription because there's so many mistakes that can be made along the way.
9:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1434
Yeah, I mean, that consumes so much time and resources that could be dedicated towards generating better responses.
9:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1460
Or we don't have to do as many response candidates because
9:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1478
things like turn taking will be a lot easier.
10:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1489
It makes the whole process afterwards just so simpler if that we didn't have to worry about it.
10:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1498
And healing, you mean like, oh, so.
10:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1516
The way I do the transcriptions too is that's in its own thread and it's
10:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1523
doing it at different intervals and constantly.
10:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1538
It's basically so there's like different segments at different time intervals.
10:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1545
And then it's basically giving it to an LLM being like, Hey, here are all the time intervals.
10:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1556
Here's what the transcription said for each of these.
10:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1574
And here's the transcription of what we have so far.
10:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1583
What do you think is actually being said here?
10:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1593
And actually that does a really good job of putting it together.
10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1602
And.
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1614
It can sometimes read between the lines basically what's being said.
10:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1615
That's what I found to be really good.
11:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1626
But I think this feels like that's kind of like a workaround for
11:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1634
the speed and inaccuracy of transcription models as they are.
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1647
Yep, that makes sense.
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1657
And is there anything that's different now that makes that more valuable versus like a year ago?
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1661
Well, I mean.
11:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1678
What do you mean exactly?
11:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1681
So I guess it's like if you had that transcription
11:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1686
that was perfect, Would that, is there anything that makes it like any kind of, you know, opportunities or things that are different now versus like a year ago that make it more valuable to have like the perfect and fast transcription?
11:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1696
Yeah, I mean, I think from just a year ago, like since we have faster LLMs that are higher quality, you know, like Gemini Flash is like fast and really good.
11:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1738
I mean, it does a decent job for its speed.
11:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1769
And that's not really something we had like a year ago.
12:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1779
Like even if you had fast transcription a year ago, it would have still been a pretty rough experience, I think.
12:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1790
So I think like the rest of the tech that's revolving around Voice is coming together to a point where, you know, things are going to, I think in a year from now it's going to, like, we'll be better in a better spot.
12:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1811
I still think turn taking has got a lot to go.
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1855
And I know there's some people that are into, like, models for turn taking.
12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1866
But.
12:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1880
Those are still, I think, not quite there yet.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1881
That's a whole, that's a whole separate conversation we can get into.
12:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1890
Well, yeah, perhaps it's a.
12:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1902
I kind of wanted to, like, ask the question again, if there's, like, a number two thing that you would wave the magic wand at.
12:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1907
Turn taking.
12:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1932
Because that is the biggest pain.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1934
I guess that you can lump interruptions with that as well.
13:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1940
Because that is another hard point to get.
13:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1951
Right now we actually use 11
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1959
Labs as our primary voice agent and our own service as a backup because I don't feel our interruptions are quite there yet.
13:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1965
So their whole end to end thing uses the,
13:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1988
you mean use their kind of like end to end conversation AI?
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-1997
Yeah, yeah, as a primary.
13:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2009
But since they go down all the time, we're flipping back to ours.
13:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2014
It is quite an unreliable service.
13:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2027
And actually, there's also a lot of things I don't like about ElevenLabs.
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2033
One, they're really bad at short responses, like a yes, no.
13:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2046
It sometimes just doesn't pick it up at all.
13:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2057
Whereas the way I had built our service, it's very good at picking up those, the way we do those like transcription segments.
13:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2066
So that's that, that's like, there's a bit of give and take there, but I would still rather use our own, but, you know, I'm like, I'm still a bit of a perfectionist on that.
14:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2089
So I want to make sure I have the turn taking and interruptions absolutely perfect for going fully live.
14:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2124
Yeah.
14:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2143
And how would having better turn taking change your life?
14:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2144
Oh, oh my God.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2154
You know what really what it is is we would be able to cut down on the silence between a user finishing speaking and then we start speaking.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2158
'Cause right now I'm a little bit, I'm a little too conservative on that, I think.
14:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2186
That's why we started putting in tones for a little musical tone
14:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2202
while we're waiting for it to really be sure that the user is finished speaking.
14:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2214
Yeah, that makes sense actually.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2229
It's all kind of downstream of turn taking.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2234
Yeah.
15:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2242
Which again is all downstream of...
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2243
Transcription.
15:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2249
Okay, let me just ask one more time.
15:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2250
Okay, so if there's the, if we've got biggest thing transcription, second thing is turn taking.
15:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2258
Is there any number three, are there any number three things that you would wave a magic wand at?
15:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2274
You know, I think,
15:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2293
and this is more of a personal thing for me.
15:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2297
I would say
15:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2307
some sort of knowledge base technology, like, like, like rag.
15:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2310
But, like, I've been, like, messing around with knowledge graphs and, like, if I could get that fast and have it do multi-term thinking very quickly in an efficient manner, then that would be you could.
15:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2320
You could just do so much more with that.
16:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2356
You could have much more flexible agents that could follow instructions better without having a gigantic prompt with everything.
16:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2365
And even with a gigantic prompt, that's not good for one latency and two keeping to task.
16:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2384
'Cause things get lost, you can't really do too much there.
16:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2401
Yeah, so I think that would be a big thing.
16:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2412
A lot of stuff we kind of.
16:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2422
Like.
16:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2429
That would mean
16:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2430
we do a lot of hacks to make sure to get around this.
16:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2433
We're doing like when the transcription gets too large, if it's been a long call, we do things like
16:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2446
compressing that down to be like, all right, let's do summarizations of this section of the and then we're only, we're keeping that prompt as short as possible.
16:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2465
I guess another way of saying that too is I would love to wave it at where an LLM could actually have a long prompt and it wouldn't affect its performance.
17:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2493
I think that's probably asking too much at this point.
17:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2524
The way I like to think about it is humans can only keep seven things in their head at one time anyway, so it makes sense that an LLM Probably is about some very similar, I think it could do a little bit more than that, but I technically, I don't like asking it to do too much in one prompt because it will, it'll not do something very well.
17:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2534
But if you ask it to do one or two things, it'll, it usually nails it.
17:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2604
Yeah, it's interesting how it kind of somewhat goes to human behavior.
17:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2620
Well, I mean, it's based off of, human language, which is an externalization of our, you know, the network dynamics of our brain.
17:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2632
Sure.
17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2655
You can make the, the argument can be made.
17:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2656
Made.
17:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2665
It's so true.
17:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2666
That's so true.
18:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2669
Do you use tool calls and stuff like that?
18:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2672
Do you do much?
18:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2681
Yeah.
18:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2685
Although we, I don't use like any like the official like LLM tool call.
18:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2686
We had no just implementing it ourselves.
18:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2700
I prefer that way.
18:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2707
I don't want to get locked into, you know, I know like tool calling is fairly common between LLMs now, but I don't want to be stuck with any particular LLM.
18:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2711
I want to be able to just switch them in and out and not have to worry about porting code over for tool calling.
18:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2742
So we do everything ourselves.
18:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2766
It's all XML, yada, yada, yada.
18:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2771
Yeah, yeah.
18:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2777
And that works great for me.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2779
Okay.
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2785
That's, yeah, I mean, I've been that a lot of them are pretty lightweight anyway, aren't they?
18:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2786
They are, they are.
18:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2803
But I think it's my ethos kind of thing.
18:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2807
No, no, no.
18:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2816
It's not like you're trying to like, you know, write your own F of MP library or something like that.
18:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2819
Yeah, exactly.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2839
It's like, yeah,
19:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2841
yeah, that's, that's awesome.
19:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2844
Okay, those are the main questions that I had and it was extremely helpful.
19:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2848
Yeah.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2862
What just like one very road question is like, first swag, like what kind of swag do you would like you actually like and use or where if we got some swag.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2863
Oh.
19:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2895
I don't know.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2896
I mean, a t-shirt that would go hard.
19:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2899
Okay, cool.
19:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2907
Cool.
19:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2909
Yeah, we're trying to think of, like, some.
19:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2910
We've kind of.
19:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2918
Our biggest delay in creating it so far is, like, we're trying to come up with, like, some clever, like, sort of, like, I don't know if you've seen, like, some of the cool.
19:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2921
Some of the companies have, like.
19:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2955
GPU poor or whatever, like these kind of, like, very fun, like, ones.
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2961
Yeah, I I have not noticed.
19:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2974
I I I know.
19:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2980
I I think being so isolated in New York, I've, like, been out of the swag game.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-2984
We'll bring you back in.
20:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3001
Yeah, that's.
20:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3006
That's really cool.
20:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3008
Yeah, that.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3011
Anthony, that those were.
20:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3013
That's all we had.
20:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3017
I'm going to send you like an if it's okay, I had another invite that's got like five.
20:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3021
It's kind of you could just like recurring if there's like a slot that works.
20:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3039
And then obviously if you can't do any of them or you want to drop out, like totally understand because it's, you know, starting a company gets, you know, busy.
20:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3054
But yeah, we'll try to make it useful as well.
20:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3084
And we're going to share like what we find after the first, like, you know, as we go from, like, the conversations.
20:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3094
So the patterns and stuff like that and, like, anything else we learn.
20:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3116
Yeah.
20:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3129
Is.
20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3130
Do you have any questions for me or.
20:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3131
No, no, no questions.
20:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3139
I mean, yeah, I i.
21:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3143
I mean, I would love to.
21:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3148
In further conversations, just to, like, compare notes as much as possible.
21:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3154
Yeah, it's fun just talking about it.
21:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3166
Yeah,
21:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3173
yeah.
21:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3174
It's like so clear how passionate you are about it.
21:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3175
It's really cool actually.
21:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3185
I think it's so fun.
21:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3189
I love media stuff in general.
21:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3194
Just more, I think working with media, it's just so, it feels much more like
21:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3200
unfigured out versus like text and stuff and I don't know.
21:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3215
Oh yeah.
21:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3226
I mean, like, I love,
21:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3228
I think this reminds me, like, I feel like I've had this kind of energy since I was in college.
21:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3233
And I used to, like, I loved making my own video game engines and getting really in the nitty gritty with GPUs and figuring out how to make things as fast and efficient as possible.
21:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3253
And I feel like I'm getting that same kind of rush with the voice agents.
22:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3288
Yeah.
22:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3303
That's why I've been getting super deep into the, the multi-threading of it.
22:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3304
Have you ever thought about, because I, something that I really wanted to do, just like, so I could learn how it works is like, if you thought about, like, building your own model, like, just even just like a toy one, just for, like, yeah, you have.
22:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3317
Yeah.
22:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3365
Actually, so, like, like a year before I, I started this company, I, I'd left, like, Deliveroo in, like, 2021, and then we started this.
22:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3366
2022.
22:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3391
But in that year, I spent just time making my own models and really just learning as much as I could.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3392
Because I knew I wanted to get into AI.
22:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3413
I laid off Bluerouge just with that in mind because over the years, I just always wanted to.
22:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3422
I was like, okay, let me, I started with the video models actually.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3440
My closest friend of mine, he's in visual effects here in New York.
22:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3453
So we, like, I've been, like, collaborating with him for, like, over the years, but, like, oh, like, I really think it'd be cool, like, to get into the VFX and see what AI can do with that.
23:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3466
And
23:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3504
I was just started, like, I made my own models around removing, like, cleaning up video.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3505
Like, I was getting annoyed by sometimes there would be, like,
23:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3521
is it really weird thing to bring up, but.
23:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3532
I was watching the show Grand Designs and
23:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3541
I was into videography and photography and I noticed in some shots they had dust on the lens and you could see it in the shot.
23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3549
And I was like, come on, you guys should be able to just filter this out or clean this up.
23:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3575
So I built a model that was called Dust Remover as just a way to learn how these models work.
23:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3595
And I
23:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3615
would just clean up any of all the episodes of Grand Designs that I had downloaded so that I could stop being annoyed by it when I wanted to.
23:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3617
It worked.
24:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3646
Yeah.
24:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3648
Oh, yeah, it worked.
24:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3649
How did you train?
24:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3653
How did you tell it?
24:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3657
The training data set, I actually had that all generated in Blender.
24:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3662
So what I would do is I would I took samples of it from the episodes of Grand Designs.
24:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3674
And then I had a lot of photos that I had noticed in my own photography.
24:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3693
Anytime there would be dust on the lens, so I had examples there.
24:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3709
But then I would do a roteless Python script in Blender that would automatically add these fake
24:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3722
dust into videos, existing videos.
24:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3739
And then I'd be like, okay, I have the dataset of it clean, and I have it with the dirtied ones I made.
24:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3744
And then that's how I built the data set.
24:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3767
That's absolutely genius.
24:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3776
And it would be like it randomly generated into like which frames and which part of the and the size of it.
24:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3779
Because Dust, I guess, is simple enough.
25:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3801
That it's very simple.
25:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3808
That would actually, yeah, that's so smart.
25:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3812
That's so smart.
25:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3819
Because I tried to, this was like a few years ago now.
25:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3822
I tried to, I I wanted to try to build an AI.
25:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3834
I used to play RuneScape this game back in the day.
25:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3846
And I was trying to get it to recognize so stupid cows and just click on a cow.
25:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3857
And
25:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3875
it's just the amount of, I think I got stuck on the data part where it's just how much labeled data I'd have to have.
25:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3876
And I didn't get very far over.
25:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3901
It, but it was like, that is the toughest part.
25:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3908
That's why I'm all for synthetic data for training.
25:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3918
Microsoft really doing a great job on that.
25:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3927
Like they were there.
25:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3935
I had done that before they came out with a very important paper on 5-4 that was related to how they did synthetic data on all of their training.
25:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3939
And I was like, yes, I'm not the only one that thought synthetic data rules.
26:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3968
I need to look into what Microsoft's doing there.
26:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3983
I didn't know they were doing that.
26:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3992
They have a really good
26:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-3999
text to voice model they just came out with like a week or two ago.
26:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4004
Oh, really?
26:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4019
Yeah, yeah.
26:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4021
It's been, I would say I compare it, it's very close to like Chatterbox from Resemble.
26:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4023
But I think it's a lot better than that from what I've seen anyway.
26:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4039
Okay, awesome.
26:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4053
That's a weird name.
26:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4055
It's like a very generic sounding name.
26:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4059
Azure AI speech?
26:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4066
No.
26:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4069
Oh, no, no, no, not that.
26:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4070
Oh, bye voice.
26:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4076
Bye voice.
26:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4079
Bye voice, yes.
26:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4081
Oh, yeah.
26:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4084
That's very silly.
26:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4086
That doesn't matter, I guess.
26:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4089
Sorry, Anthony, I realize we're over.
26:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4094
Oh, yes.
26:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4100
Sorry.
27:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4102
Sorry.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4103
Thank you so much for your time.
27:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4104
Really appreciate it.
27:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4111
And hopefully chat in about a month.
27:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4114
I'll send you a message.
27:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4121
Sure.
27:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4126
Yeah, I'd love to keep chatting.
27:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4127
Amazing.
27:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4133
Thank you.
27:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4134
See you later.
27:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4136
See it.
27:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/7#word-4139

-----

Episode: Ryan from Synqtech #2
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6

Of, hey, we're, you know, we're a Google shop or we're Amazon shop or something like that.
0:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-0
So I think for most of our customers, they're perfectly happy with it being on Microsoft stack, but kind of at the business level, there's a weird pressure, I guess, to like, if you could not be locked into the one that one of those platforms could speak, then that's a more attractive business, potentially more valuable business
0:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-17
in their eyes.
0:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-75
Because they want to.
0:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-78
It causes us to explore a little bit, but I really don't want to do that development work to like, let's make our platform fully agnostic or whatever SaaS provider, that's a ton of effort for zero additional sales in the next year.
0:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-82
Okay, yeah, that's sort of, I guess, how we see the vendor lock-in, but not so much from like a customer.
0:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-125
I think they're all I'm extremely happy that it's a Microsoft stack because they're all already using Microsoft, so.
1:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-146
Yeah, so I guess like Ryan, this is, would you say this is like a top three pain for you?
1:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-165
It would be three if it's in the top three.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-185
Okay.
1:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-195
I mean, our main one is like audio quality for us because we've got the unique unique radio input.
1:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-196
That's just so low quality.
1:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-215
So that's far and away number one.
1:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-220
Number two is probably more on the manufacturing side because there's physical equipment.
1:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-227
How do we deploy that?
1:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-240
How do we update that?
1:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-245
That's kind of ugly.
2:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-250
And then we're into the
2:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-254
turn taking, kind of like,
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-259
are we, because we're sort of like a passive listener
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-264
to the audio stream.
2:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-274
Half of the conversations aren't for us, so when is it our turn?
2:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-278
We don't know when to jump in, so we've got to rely on keywords and things like that to try and kick it into gear.
2:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-291
As far as like,
2:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-316
I guess getting at your number one, for us that, It isn't so much about the metrics,
2:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-320
but if we were to compute a metric on audio quality and are we getting a good result?
2:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-337
I think it's probably less the model's fault and more the source audio that's the problem.
2:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-355
But we don't really have a good way to measure that.
2:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-371
And that would be...
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-382
I'm not quite sure how to do it because we're not audio engineers ourselves, but there's an interesting challenge to
3:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-386
Could the system just report that the audio is not up to snuff to help tune the system and identify problems?
3:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-406
Because we are getting
3:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-427
results back, but are they,
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-431
I guess, how do we evaluate our own audio quality?
3:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-436
Not to compare models or anything like that, but just are these results likely good ones just for our own
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-446
our own use.
3:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-466
Like, yeah, if we're getting 90% success, I mean, that would be amazing.
3:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-469
I think we're probably more in the 60-70% range for getting quality transcriptions back.
3:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-482
Okay.
4:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-496
Yeah.
4:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-497
Yeah.
4:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-498
So, okay.
4:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-499
Yeah.
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-501
So this is, are you happy with this ordering?
4:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-502
Would you say?
4:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-511
I haven't done that yet.
4:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-514
Yeah.
4:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-519
Okay, awesome.
4:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-520
I realize, I don't know if I actually pressed record on this
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-522
I've recorded it on the phone youn can see the challenge actually yeah recording features oh did I join with the wrong thing?
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-534
Okay
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-557
right
4:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-558
maybe I loved it if.
4:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-559
I click the more three dots in the bottom right it's got a record.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-564
Option for me oh really?
4:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-578
Okay would you be able to press that?
4:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-583
I can guess I don't know where.
4:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-591
It'S gonna end up Otherwise, I can just- oh, okay.
4:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-598
It says recording features can't be started.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-608
Until- I'm just gonna leave and come back quickly.
4:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-615
Sorry, Ryan.
4:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-624
Okay, no problem.
4:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-626
I'm just gonna leave.
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-629
Okay, sorry about that.
5:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-633
I think I got logged out of Zoom.
5:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-637
That's why.
5:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-645
Okay.
5:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-647
Recording in progress.
5:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-648
There we go.
5:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-651
That was the smoothest one I've done.
5:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-654
I feel like usually it's way more complex.
5:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-661
It'll be like, you've got to redownload Zoom and, like, you got to do all this.
5:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-669
Okay.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-685
Amazing.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-686
Thank you, Ryan.
5:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-687
Thanks.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-690
To your patience.
5:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-691
Okay.
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-694
So
5:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-695
this one is like gain.
5:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-696
So it's like kind of more like what you would get is like kind of so
5:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-701
it's kind of like what would be a benefit to you of like any changes.
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-717
So some of this is it's like obviously largely based around the problem.
6:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-732
So kind of want to do the same thing.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-745
Just like get your reaction to this is like, is this the top three thing that you would want out of a tool kind of thing?
6:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-754
So like you've got like a Here you've got a production faithful eval system with clear metrics, conversation should feel instant and natural.
6:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-780
Teams want to swap
6:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-803
automatic speech recognition.
6:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-807
Yeah, I think so.
6:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-810
Maybe start the list at number three is we're about to start seeing that.
6:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-814
Most of what we're doing right now is pilots where we're just capturing the data that nobody is
6:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-828
No one's analyzing the historic data.
6:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-846
So nobody has any idea if they want to, you know, what model is being used or if they want to swap it out or things like that.
6:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-852
So that's going to be coming and I think it's...
7:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-880
I mean, yeah, and getting back to how do we evaluate these things?
7:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-890
Hey, let's switch you over to this model because it's better for your particular radios or if it's the after action analysis of the Bayes transcript.
7:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-903
You can take a vanilla model, but really it's going to be a whole pile of prompts and
7:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-929
potentially adding some agent capability, some MTP to go and match that up with some other things.
7:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-947
So I think we're going to get into that.
7:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-964
But it's not there yet.
7:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-973
I just know it's kind of looping.
7:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-978
I think there's a fair bit of latency going off the list.
7:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-985
Number two, there is a fair bit of latency with what we have, so we know it doesn't feel instant and natural.
7:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-997
So far, that's...
8:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1019
It hasn't been a big deal.
8:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1022
People talk about it, and then they...
8:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1028
It's kind of like, I guess, the nuanced point that we can We can sort of explain it away at the moment, but
8:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1035
if we're starting to compete with
8:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1058
non-walkie-talkie based ones,
8:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1064
I think that,
8:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1067
I don't know, the difference will show at that point.
8:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1070
Yeah, yeah.
8:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1080
Yeah.
8:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1082
Yeah.
8:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1083
Protection faithful eval system.
8:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1084
Yeah, we difficult for us to test here because we're like, nobody uses walkie-talkies other than to like just do the testing 1-2-3 kind of speak into the walkie-talkie to make sure it works.
8:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1088
So we lack
8:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1122
a real store environment.
8:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1125
If like our manufacturers were on radios or something all the time, we would just monitor our own systems and yeah, we lack that.
9:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1129
So.
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1153
Difficult to see how it would.
9:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1154
Yeah.
9:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1160
So, yeah, in a test environment, it's pretty hard to replicate.
9:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1161
Would you say none of these essentially would be in the top three things that you would want, basically?
9:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1172
Yeah.
9:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1191
Not.
9:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1192
Not yet, I think.
9:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1193
Yeah.
9:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1197
We don't have enough in production that we sort of worry too much about.
9:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1198
The regression, I mean, the changes are small.
9:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1212
It's a small enough number of deployments that
9:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1220
we can kind of monitor them.
9:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1228
And they're friendly customers that we're talking to all the time and we're working with them.
9:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1234
So they're...
9:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1250
Yeah, I think that one's not a problem yet.
9:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1252
I think if we, once we get past like 20 of these units in the wild,
9:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1261
that's gonna be too much to kind of have our finger on the pulse of.
10:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1277
So,
10:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1292
I don't know, three months, like for sure, there's gonna be
10:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1293
a problem there if we're gonna need metrics coming out of each of those systems to tell us if there's a problem.
10:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1304
Yeah, but not yet.
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1326
Not yet.
10:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1330
You've got other problems right now.
10:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1332
Is it Ryan, would you think it'd be fair to say I'm just like, I don't know, it's hard for me to suggest these without leading you down a path and I don't want to, but also know it's hard to just pull these out of your head.
10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1338
Do you reckon you would have a go at saying what your top three games are or would you prefer me to just guess at them and then you can say yeah, no, I can't go.
10:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1386
One of them is going to be, you know, manufacturing side of things just because that is a pain point that we are still, every unit that we've produced,
11:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1422
slightly unique, little unicorn, there's something that gets tweaked so it's not quite streamlined just we just scan another one out.
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1451
It's close, but it's
11:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1472
not quite there yet.
11:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1476
And there's, you know, what's the enclosure?
11:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1480
Hey, we can't get this one this week, so let's use this other one that's almost the same.
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1487
So it's not quite.
11:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1505
Yeah, it's not assembly line just yet.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1509
So
11:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1516
I think we're close.
11:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1517
We just need to accept that this is what the unit is going to cost to build and apply the expensive parts that we know we can get.
11:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1521
That one would let us just crank these things out and get them into the wild.
11:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1549
So it would be just be able to produce, to be able to manufacture consistently.
12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1565
Produce this scale, yeah.
12:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1580
I know nothing, but whenever I've heard like Elon Musk talk about like manufacturing, I think he didn't always say it's like building it is easy, it's just doing it at scale, which is like the hard bit.
12:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1584
Yeah, I can imagine.
12:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1622
Yeah, I can build one of these by hand, but I can't build 10.
12:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1626
Yeah.
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1640
Okay, so that's number one thing that you would want.
12:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1641
So like some magic thing that would just be able to help you manufacture.
12:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1651
Yeah, yeah.
12:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1665
The number two would be, and I split one and two could swap, but it, you know, the silver bullet on just audio quality over a radio.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1667
A specific model that is tuned to radios, which potentially is something that we could build, but it's trained on static field radios.
12:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1694
It's trained on
13:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1717
the domain of using a radio in a retail environment
13:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1720
where you're talking about aisles and stock and shoplifters and that's what the conversations are about.
13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1730
They're, you know, the models that are out there that we're working at are amazing, but they're, you know, they're, they're tuned to work for everybody in every situation and not our super specific situation.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1746
Yeah.
13:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1781
Yeah.
13:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1782
And I think there's, you know, there's probably lots of knobs and dials that we can turn on individual models.
13:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1783
We just haven't had the time to focus on that to see if it's,
13:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1803
you know, can we get what we need out of the Azure Speech to Text if we just give it this extra bit of context or, you know, switch off the Nigella Azure Speech to Text and turn on, you know, OpenAI, talk to it directly and Now where we can give it more information upfront, that's certainly something that we ought to be exploring.
13:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1817
Yeah.
14:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1882
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1883
And then actually something that's like what you guys do is let you swap between all these models and you can throw the same inputs at them and just see
14:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1886
what gets the better results, that can give you guys support.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1916
Super wide
14:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1927
assortment of models.
14:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1929
Like, we don't have that, so we don't know what we're missing.
14:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1932
Yeah.
14:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1944
Yeah.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1945
If we want to sink up several days to get Doogle, Gemini working, or.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1946
Yeah,
14:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1960
you know, we can, but we've gotta.
14:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1961
We've got to go build that into the product just to find out if it's any good.
14:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1968
Sure.
14:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1985
It's hard to.
14:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1986
Do quick tests.
15:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1989
Yeah.
15:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1992
Yeah.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1993
Okay, awesome.
15:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1994
Do you have a number three, would you say?
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-1996
Number three would be just a, we'd kind of lack a good management system for rolling out new customers, like management of the SaaS infrastructure.
15:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2005
So that it's a bit manual.
15:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2030
Yeah, it's not hard.
15:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2036
It's just kind of a human's got to do it.
15:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2040
It's error prone.
15:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2050
We don't have a.
15:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2053
We don't have a system to just press the button and out pops a new store location ready to go.
15:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2057
So, yeah, the onboarding
15:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2077
side of things.
15:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2081
Yeah, I actually have heard that from other people, actually.
15:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2084
Yeah.
15:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2094
Yeah, sometimes it's pretty easy.
15:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2095
If someone's just doing a trial, we'll just add them to our multi-tenant environment and drop a config file in place and it works.
16:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2100
It's manual, but it's pretty easy.
16:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2124
We've just gone through, it's not quite ready for primetime, but
16:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2130
We've got a listing, it's private at the moment, but like an Azure listing where you can just add our appliance as an item and then it spins up all the resources you need out of your own little environment.
16:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2141
That's ultimately what I think is the future of spinning up our set of resources for a larger organization like a Target or a Walmart or somebody.
16:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2181
That needs their own dedicated pool of resources.
16:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2208
So that's at least a button click to get things up and running.
16:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2216
So we're taking some steps there.
16:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2229
Yeah, that's that.
16:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2235
How long does it typically take?
17:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2238
I mean, I guess that you said it varies, but, like, so on board.
17:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2244
Oh, so, I mean, with this, this new button press, it's.
17:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2258
Probably five minutes.
17:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2269
Okay.
17:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2272
To create all the resources and then they're running live.
17:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2273
Yeah, so it's not going to be like a customer could self serve to get the resources.
17:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2283
There's no particular urgency to have it be instant.
17:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2300
Yeah.
17:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2309
The type of sale and customer or after is They're not sitting on the website and hoping to press the button there to try to test out an instance.
17:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2310
Yeah, yeah.
17:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2339
Because there's the hardware component to it, it's going to be a
17:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2341
slow process.
17:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2353
Okay.
17:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2355
And then is there a lot of onboarding around other things?
17:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2356
At the moment, since we're not giving people access to the underlying data, we're kind of gatekeeping the data that gets captured and how you go about analyzing it.
17:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2367
That all goes to us.
18:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2396
Financially, it needs to not do that and kind of give people tools to access their own data.
18:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2401
So at that point, that would become part of their onboarding experience.
18:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2419
Not only do you press the button to create these resources, but
18:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2431
your Microsoft account is how you get into the system and it gives you access to dashboards and the transcripts and all that stuff.
18:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2443
Once we've built that, then that'll be kind of an additional onboarding piece.
18:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2467
But the key, I think, would be to have it sort of be automatic.
18:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2480
It's tied into the whole,
18:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2494
whatever the user was that created the resources in Azure, they become the administrator and they can manage their own users themselves.
18:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2499
We don't have to do all that stuff.
18:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2521
Okay.
19:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2529
Yeah.
19:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2530
Yeah.
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2531
That makes sense.
19:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2532
Funnily enough, that takes us way down the path of vendor login,
19:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2535
once we get all those things.
19:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2547
Yeah.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2553
It'd be very difficult to spin that off into another environment.
19:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2554
That's always a trade-off, isn't it?
19:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2565
Okay, we could try and maybe just quickly go and touch on these and we'll skip the change of environment.
19:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2571
We've got four minutes, so conscious of the time.
19:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2591
Okay, jobs to be done.
19:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2600
How do these look to you as top three?
19:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2605
Actually, the VAD one, definitely.
19:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2614
There's certainly some, like, some background noise that's causing some, like, it's nothing.
19:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2619
It's even just silence, but it, like, causes the system to spend money doing translations of nothing.
19:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2632
So that one is.
19:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2649
Is definitely top of mind.
19:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2653
Number two is probably not us,
20:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2658
or at least not at the moment, but
20:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2664
like a system health, maybe it's kind of related, but like being able to have a picture of the system health, are we getting reasonable returns out of this store today?
20:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2672
Yes or no, and that alerts us if something's up.
20:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2703
And then, yeah, for number three, I think our version of that would just be
20:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2713
experiment with more providers
20:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2728
and see if there's a winner that's just the best for radios or If there's no clear winner, now we need to
20:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2732
invest in developing our own models or our own training sets and
20:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2754
see what we can get out of those existing models if we train a custom one.
21:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2766
Okay, so would you say for you, in terms of voice AI, your job's to be done?
21:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2782
What would you say?
21:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2799
Do you think you could have a stab at having a top three?
21:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2803
Just thinking.
21:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2816
Jobs to be yeah, I think the actually the sort of the van interesting little comment there, there is an immediate problem we need to solve is just improve the pad.
21:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2818
Because that's costing money, creating confusion, because there's these inaudible results.
21:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2849
Basically it just didn't throw out the nonsense that would have an immediate impact if we could do that.
21:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2860
Would you say that's your number one job to be done?
22:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2879
I think that's number one right now.
22:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2890
Yeah.
22:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2897
Yeah, because it's kind of eroded confidence in the system of all these, like, what was this untranscribed chunk of audio that was one second long?
22:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2898
And it was nothing.
22:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2924
Super helpful.
22:26 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2928
And then two would be experiment with providers to find the best model for radio use cases.
22:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2930
Yeah.
22:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2947
Yeah, interesting.
22:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2948
And it sounds like that is almost like a subset of number one.
22:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2950
Kind of, I guess.
22:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2963
Yeah.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2967
Okay, Ryan, we're at pretty much that time, so I just wanna say thank you very much.
22:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2968
This is extremely, extremely helpful.
22:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2985
Yes, but if you, I don't know if you want to
23:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-2990
send me the, what was missed on the list, I'd be happy to fill in.
23:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3001
Oh, yeah.
23:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3016
If you, it just changes in environment.
23:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3018
I can send it to you.
23:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3025
Yeah, absolutely.
23:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3031
If you have time, but no, no pressure as well.
23:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3033
This is all, it doesn't need to be, like, completely complete, so.
23:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3043
And I think this is the least important one for us right now, so this is extremely helpful.
23:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3055
So no, no pressure.
23:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3073
And hopefully, hopefully it's useful and.
23:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3077
Yeah, anything else I can do?
23:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3083
I'm happy to hop on a call.
23:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3089
Thank you.
23:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3096
Are you still happy to continue doing these once a month?
23:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3098
We're going to change this.
23:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3109
Yeah, yeah, okay, amazing.
23:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3114
And if you want, like if there's a little homework assignment or something to do ahead of time, I'd be happy to.
23:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3118
Thank you.
23:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3140
Yeah, we're prepped.
23:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3142
If that works for you, I'm happy to.
23:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3145
We're honestly already so grateful, so just don't want to take up any more of your time.
23:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3153
So thank you very much.
24:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3170
No worries.
24:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3175
Okay, thanks.
24:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3177
Have a good evening.
24:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3179
Thank you, Ryan.
24:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3183
Have a good evening.
24:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3186
See you later.
24:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3190
Bye.
24:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/6#word-3193

-----

Episode: Ryan from Synqtech #1
Link: https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5

Free audio post production
16:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-0
by Alfonic.com I.
0:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-4
Know from the last time I just thanks the phoning,
0:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-7
I'll try.
0:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-17
Well, this maybe as good like probably represents to the sort of audio.
0:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-19
Yeah,
0:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-32
background noise.
0:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-33
Yeah, so this is our favorite question, which is like when you're building I mean, the building with voice AI,
0:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-35
if you could wave a magic wand at any of the problems that you've been dealing with, what would you wave it at?
0:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-55
That's interesting.
0:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-78
The...
0:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-80
Well, there's two.
0:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-81
So, I mean, the one we've been talking about, like the audio pinning out or whatever it is, because there's just such diverse audio sources that it's...
0:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-84
We don't know what're going to get, and you're going enough fusarely me can sell themload the vision and then you get to the store and it's just screeches and all them on you goes clipp to like,, who are going do this?
0:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-111
and so it was definitely that problem.
1:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-154
Um, the other one that is like very radio specific is Don't get your hands on Anderson Radio and this like it's a barrier for every sales they send us your radios and you're gonna get two of them, and' better have chargers, and like I don't know.
1:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-161
Okay, well, now we can't do that or we can't spare them.
1:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-209
So we're sourcing ourselves and like there's a bit of a hardware challenge there.
1:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-221
That'll go away eventually when we've done enough of these.
1:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-235
But the stage rad, like
1:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-245
jumping for joy when there's like, they got the same radios as we've already compatible whiles in there.
1:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-250
Yeah.
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-268
Or it's a cheap one that we could just buy and it's like, we're just heading to just go get one for $100 and install it for them on the ship.
1:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-269
Yeah.
1:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-300
Those two, the, the band of my existence right now.
1:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-301
So the voice, the, I'm just like.
2:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-311
The, the carrying it accuracy.
2:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-318
Carrying it accuracy.
2:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-323
Yeah.
2:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-326
Yeah.
2:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-327
Yeah.
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-328
Actually having the hardware to plug in.
2:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-329
So it would be, yeah.
2:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-336
And get it.
2:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-341
And that's so that you can actually develop.
2:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-344
You can only deliver it smaller.
2:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-352
Like we can do all the development.
2:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-358
We got a bit of a rude awakening because we did a bunch of the development and just been like, just use the speaker on your laptop and, yeah, I'll talk to it.
2:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-365
It basically gets what I say almost every time correctly.
2:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-398
And then that's not the experience we need.
2:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-408
Right.
2:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-416
Plug it through the hardware kit.
2:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-417
That's a walkie talkie.
2:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-423
How was it different?
2:41 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-427
Oh, it's just like you're going to get half as many successful returns from the speech to text.
2:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-431
It just comes back with nothing.
2:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-449
Like, couldn't interpret it or wildly incorrect.
2:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-455
Because of the- It's just such a bad signal.
2:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-462
Bad signal.
3:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-471
I'm not- was it the-
3:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-473
The Owookies are fine because they they don't have a lot of bandwidth.
3:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-478
So they got to compress the normal range of human voices.
3:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-491
They're going to throw out bits that they don't think you're going to need.
3:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-502
They know you're going to play it on another motorized Owookie.
3:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-516
Talking to the tone.
3:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-527
They got a little speaker this big.
3:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-531
So well, let's don't send any bass with that.
3:21 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-538
They're going to like,
3:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-547
yeah, make the audio worse so that they can fit it across the air.
3:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-551
And then like we've just gotten that signal to work with on the other end.
3:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-565
And that's one of the reasons we're looking at using something like a software defined radio to like try and exclude any artifact that's coming from the walkie-talkie actually playing the audio for us.
3:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-580
That's making assumptions about what kind of speaker it's got in it.
3:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-614
It's filtering out some of the audio anyway.
3:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-626
Cause it was always submodular with some missing things that bowled to the air that we want to prove whether like it's the walkie talkie itself that we're listening to the problem versus like what's coming over here.
4:01 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-634
That's a bloody project that we're looking to kick off.
4:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-672
And so it's like what you build, you need to actually test it on the devices.
4:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-682
So yeah, know that it's actually good to use.
4:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-698
Yeah.
4:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-707
None of our, a few of our customers are local, but we're sending these kits across the country.
4:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-708
If we don't have installers there, and say, oh, it's kind of just ship it to the manager of the store and they're going to plug it in the ethernet and power.
4:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-726
Hopefully it fires up.
4:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-758
They got to turn on the radios at volume directly, put it on the right channel.
4:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-762
There's a lot of them dumb little human problems that could go wrong.
4:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-778
And so what the magic wand would be to.
4:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-791
Infinite supply of devices.
5:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-800
Infinite supply of devices.
5:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-804
Yeah.
5:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-808
Yeah, that would solve that.
5:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-809
So if we could, if this wave of the magic wand worked, how would it change your life?
5:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-814
Now, I spend a lot of our time on the delivering.
5:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-832
Side, making sure that, okay, this kit that we build is actually going to work for this customer as opposed to like writing code to stupid new use cases in.
5:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-843
So that problem would just go away.
5:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-873
And would be dramatically less.
5:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-880
Yeah.
5:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-885
Good.
5:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-886
That's, this could also be solved with like a bigger production and testing team.
5:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-887
Yeah.
5:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-901
That would solve that too.
5:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-902
If you had a bigger, but yeah.
5:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-907
Just other people that aren't the dev team.
5:48 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-914
How to put on that stuff.
5:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-922
We just had that, baby.
5:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-928
Yeah.
5:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-933
Is there any, if there was like a third, is there a third thing that you would wave a magic wand at?
5:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-934
A third.
6:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-956
Sorry, a third thing.
6:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-958
I say, oh.
6:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-962
Short of like customer side problems or like IT and can we get approval to do this?
6:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-965
There's so many things that hang out, but the technology is fine.
6:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-982
It's gonna work while I'm getting blocked because,
6:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-994
yeah, the IT department doesn't want about network access or people are paranoid that the audio that we're capturing is somehow sensitive and that's the company's secrets, even though it's from public airways and someone could sit in the parking lot with a radio.
6:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1002
Yeah.
6:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1046
It's kind of like the human understanding of probably top of it.
6:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1047
Okay.
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1059
This is like human, it could go either way.
6:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1060
Yeah.
6:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1069
I think there's a fourth thing would be,
6:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1070
it doesn't need a magic wand, but just better, more time to devote to how we orchestrate the various modules.
7:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1078
Like, we're so independent right now.
7:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1098
Like, if you're doing an inventory lookup, you need to tell us it's inventory and then we can go do that really well.
7:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1104
And if it's a generic LLM, we can do that.
7:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1127
We can hand that off really well.
7:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1137
But then if you start mixing these things together, breaks up the LLM conversation.
7:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1144
Yeah.
7:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1158
You don't want to have to like ask the agent, Hey, Toby, every single time I talk to it, you want to be able to like ask it once and then if I keep coming back, you know, it's me and, that isn't handled very well because there's so much other traffic going on.
7:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1159
Oh, you can't really piece together the...
7:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1213
Somebody got a quick question in here that isn't for the agent, but then let's go back to answering the original one.
7:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1220
That was...
7:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1242
So it's like kind of keeping the consistency across.
7:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1244
Like, it's like you want to treat it as if it's like a conversation.
8:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1253
But this thing has like many conversations going on.
8:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1267
Kind of like if Granola was like, if we wanted to pick up the neighboring conversation.
8:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1276
Yeah.
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1292
At the same time, I keep it separate.
8:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1293
If it could do that.
8:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1301
That was blowing my mind.
8:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1306
Yeah, that's kind of the same problem, so basically that's the same.
8:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1311
Yeah.
8:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1323
That's very interesting.
8:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1324
Do you remember my third question?
8:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1327
I have one more question that I always use, which is, just pull out.
8:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1333
The top of my head.
8:36 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1347
Do you have more questions, Aiden, while I search?
8:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1352
I frantically searched for my third question.
8:42 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1361
I have a complete aside to that point, which is, I was just thinking, I was just saying that what technology exists that can do something like that?
8:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1368
And I did hear something, I thought it was really cool the other day.
8:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1396
I don't know if this would actually solve that.
8:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1410
It's like how you...
8:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1419
How do you breathe and shut your sounds, baby, and then be able to direct the microphone digitally off in the back?
8:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1423
Like there are apparently these directional 360 microphones.
9:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1445
Where are your ears?
9:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1453
Have you seen those?
9:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1457
Yeah.
9:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1461
Fucking crazy.
9:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1462
So you,
9:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1464
you could wear them in your ears and then it reports how it's in your ear that it didn't hear it.
9:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1466
That's good.
9:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1487
And apparently it's great for like reconstructing like soundbox kind of, but also has some real utility if you're like, I want to record this and I don't know where I want to point the microphone, but later I will figure that out.
9:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1489
Nice.
9:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1532
So yeah, that's my point.
9:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1533
Complete the side there.
9:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1538
That was very helpful, just so I now remember that.
9:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1542
A friend of mine that we talked to about, he's like a digital schooling and digital signal processing.
9:45 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1552
Oh, really?
9:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1570
So we've been kind of tapping him for some insights into what we're doing and kind of educated me on like how some of these things work, but like your Sonos system, like when you plug it in, it's gonna do these sign sweeps, like these big woops sounds like a few times.
9:52 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1572
I have some speakers that do that.
10:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1625
Basically gonna make a picture they can hear your room and they-- Really?
10:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1632
It's not really-- It's not six feet.
10:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1645
Yeah, it's crazy.
10:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1652
So they can understand how far that wall is away and where you need to be to hear the sound and they get reconfigured.
10:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1655
So the speakers, Jack's staying at my place while he's here.
10:20 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1679
The speakers in there, the big-- oh.
10:23 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1690
Yeah, the corners just-- They do that.
10:25 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1697
Really?
10:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1704
Yeah, if you turn one, they-- Then.
10:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1705
They bounce the sound around.
10:30 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1712
Yeah, it's cool.
10:32 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1717
It's like, amazing.
10:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1720
Sadly, it's never gonna work for a walkie-talkie.
10:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1723
But it kind of got up to the thoughts thinking around, well, what's a-- It's a way to like deploy a system and be able to test, is it working?
10:38 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1731
Or like what radio should you replace?
10:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1761
This is never gonna work.
10:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1768
And some tests that we could run.
10:51 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1773
I go grab every radio and play audio through it.
10:54 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1780
Okay, we can pick that out and identify the good ones and the bad ones and maybe adjust.
10:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1790
Yeah, it's so cool.
11:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1808
It's like bats.
11:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1812
Right?
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1815
Walk away, son on.
11:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1816
I got my last question.
11:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1820
Well, maybe last.
11:14 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1825
So if you were, so if you waved your magic wand and you solved, you made it, you know, no devices and you were able to like understand the signal well,
11:15 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1828
is there anything that makes that more valuable now than it was like a year or two ago?
11:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1859
I mean, the end.
11:34 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1877
Everything we're doing is to unlock data that is just out there and disappears.
11:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1881
Every one of these publications was the who we're trying to sell to.
11:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1895
And there's a ton of value in that data that was just vanished into the
11:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1908
ether.
11:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1923
So that's always been there.
12:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1924
It's just you've never been able to get at it.
12:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1929
So storing all that data and then starting to extract from it,
12:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1939
I think we're very much in the retail space and the things
12:10 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1951
thousands of little, little bits of data that are valuable at the kind of corporate level.
12:13 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1963
Yeah.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1979
And then all kinds of tactical things at a store level, but let me help me do my job here.
12:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-1980
But at the corporate level, it's like, what are the patterns and where's the waste?
12:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2000
And, you know, where do we get, yeah, what type of store performs better?
12:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2015
Or, the world starts doing certain things on the radio, like,
12:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2029
it was so much there.
12:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2040
So the value's always been there.
12:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2045
There's just no way to get at it.
12:40 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2051
In that end.
12:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2059
We haven't explored much beyond retail.
12:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2062
The number of places that radios used,
12:49 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2068
concerts, events, things like that, that have-.
12:53 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2075
Concerts is like taking the difficulty to 11.
12:56 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2082
Yeah, let's pick that noise reduction problem.
12:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2090
Oh, yeah.
13:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2097
Screaming.
13:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2099
Sure.
13:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2100
The humans understand what's going on.
13:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2101
Well, that's what I was saying.
13:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2107
Yes.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2113
At some point, you know, we could.
13:08 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2114
Build stuff that's better than human senses, right?
13:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2121
So like, but yeah, they I mean, they're dealing with all kinds of problems.
13:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2129
It might be food and beverage or it might be security.
13:17 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2143
And like, yeah, they had a baseball game or something.
13:22 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2154
I was thinking that, like, yeah, music concerts and basic.
13:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2164
Yeah.
13:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2174
Yeah.
13:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2175
It's huge.
13:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2176
And they're, I'm sure there are systems that record all that.
13:29 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2178
Like, obviously they've got them for military and aviation applications.
13:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2189
They just record all the traffic, but not really at a civilian level.
13:37 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2199
And I don't know, I can see the point where But once this exists and it's out there, you're gonna get sued if you don't have it.
13:44 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2212
As far as like, you're not doing your due diligence to make sure your staff aren't doing things they shouldn't on the radio.
13:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2239
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
13:57 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2262
Yeah, if you're not monitoring your traffic, then you're truly in trouble.
13:59 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2266
You guys can become paladin for radio, basically.
14:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2278
How have you been learning about voice AI stuff?
14:11 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2286
Just kind of on the fly.
14:16 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2295
Kind of hacking through it.
14:18 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2301
Um, there's no courses or anything that I don't think we can take on.
14:19 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2306
Just APIs and blockchains and just, try it out.
14:24 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2320
Yeah.
14:27 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2329
I mean, we all lose the, the front ends.
14:28 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2330
Yeah.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2339
I have a day in the agency.
14:31 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2340
Just throw himself like a copilot or chat GPT.
14:33 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2347
So kind of know what to ask and do.
14:35 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2356
The prompt engineering side of it, at least.
14:39 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2365
Well, getting there, but they put the APIs to talk to these systems, aren't they?
14:43 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2373
Yeah.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2388
Yeah.
14:46 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2389
For sure.
14:47 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2390
I think it's all giant companies that have thought through security and they've got that figured out.
14:50 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2392
Yeah, it's nothing too weird.
14:55 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2409
Yeah.
14:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2414
That's.
14:58 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2415
Just something you don't think about.
15:00 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2416
Cool.
15:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2422
Cool.
15:02 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2423
Incredibly helpful.
15:03 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2424
Yeah.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2426
Yeah.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2427
Thank you.
15:04 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2428
Thank you very much.
15:05 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2430
Still recording.
15:06 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2434
Let's just let them go on.
15:07 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2436
Free audio post production
15:09 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2442
by alphonik.com.
15:12 - https://museli.layercode.cloud/episode/5#word-2446